Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler | PC Support |
Wanted: MS FS_ FPS Killer |
DVA6497
Captain, B747-400
Joined on January 15 2006
Everett 250 Club
Triple Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
"RLTW" Kerkrade, Limburg NL
366 legs, 574.8 hours
14 legs,
20.0 hours online 365 legs,
568.9 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
February 17 2011 19:10 ET by Ken Tucker
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Fellas, I've been lurking here reading the last couple of PC rig development threads and finally decided that enough was enough. Like the man said, "I want it all and I want it now!!" I'm tired of struggling along over the last couple of years trying to eek the most out of my computer to get the best results from MS FS9/FSX. What I want is a system that will absolutely kick the pants out of FPS in FSX SP2, FSDT KJFK, Megascenery Manhatten, REX2, UT2 and >ALL< sliders jammed against the firewall! I want to have holding for traffic delays and weather, I want departure delays from ATL as it shifts from West to East Ops, I want fog in SFO! Truth be told, there is a price limit (<$3k) as I do live in the real-world but I want to build that system which will run the snot out of FSX without any hiccups, so this'll be a one-time buy, sometime in the next 2 - 4 months. With all of that, these are the bits and parts from our friends at Newegg.
Price Item Item #
$320 CPU: Intel i7-960 Bloomfield N82E16819115224
$188 MoBo: Asus Sabertooth X58 N82E16813131665
$250 RAM: Corsair XMS 12 GB PC3 16000 N82E16820145326
$500 GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 580 Fermi N82E16814130587
$230 Boot Drive: OCZ Vertex 2 120GB N82E16820227590
$170 Data Drive: Western Digital Caviar Black 2TB 7200RPM N82E16822136456
$100 Case: Lian-Li PC-7B Plus II Mid Tower N82E16811112099
$130 PSU: Corsair 850w N82E16817139009
$160 OD: Sony SATA Blu-ray Burner N82E16827118049
N/A OS: Win7Pro64
I've rounded the numbers up and did not include other accessories, however, I'd like to think that this would be the 85% solution at around $2230. Given that FS uses single CPU capability rather than GPU, I still wanted a respectable proc and video card nonetheless.
What I'd like is a sanity check by y'all, the resident experts. Please keep in mind that this is just one take on a possible solution; I'll not consider getting a Mac, for example, though a 17 inch Pro goes at this price. Also, my comfort zone is Intel/Nvidia solutions, however, if there is a proven advantage, backed by well founded reason, I would consider alternatives for the other bits and bobs, like the mother board and SSD.
Now, here are my technical requirements: 1. Maintain a >minimum< average of 40 FPS whilst using almost every high end add-on one would care to name (PMDG, FSDT, Blueprint Sims, REX, UT2, etc.) >>simultaneously<<; 2. All MS config sliders maxed out; and 3. A minimum display of 1680 x 1050. Shouldn't be too hard, ya think?
And there it is. I do appreciate that each has their own opinion but respect the advice given, thank y'all for the help and look forward to the discussion.
Cheers!!
Ken TuckerCaptain, B747-400
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DVA8993
Captain, B747-400
Joined on August 14 2010
Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
"KJBR go Red Wolves" Washington, DC
185 legs, 837.1 hours
62 legs,
214.0 hours online 185 legs,
837.1 hours ACARS 202 legs, 858.6 hours total
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Posted onPost created on
February 17 2011 20:48 ET by William Stroud
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No need to get the i7 960. Waste of money. Either get a Sandy Bridge or get a 930 and OC it. 12 Gigs of RAM does seem like a bit of overkill.
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DVA6497
Captain, B747-400
Joined on January 15 2006
Everett 250 Club
Triple Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
"RLTW" Kerkrade, Limburg NL
366 legs, 574.8 hours
14 legs,
20.0 hours online 365 legs,
568.9 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
February 18 2011 07:21 ET by Ken Tucker
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I thought the 2600s had the SATA3 issue and were pulled. As for 12GB, better to have and not need than to need and not have. This is to be the "last" FS computer. ^_^
Cheers!!
Ken TuckerCaptain, B747-400
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DVA1690
Senior Captain, MD-88
OLP
Joined on May 05 2004
50 State Club
Quatercentenary Club
Online Quadruple Century Club
Stage 1 Jet Double Century Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
"Life begins at Vr" Longmont, CO USA
474 legs, 694.8 hours
465 legs,
681.0 hours online 252 legs,
384.8 hours ACARS 3 legs,
3.9 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
February 18 2011 10:29 ET by Trevor Bair
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Ken Tucker wrote:
I thought the 2600s had the SATA3 issue and were pulled.
Correct, Ken. The CPU itself is fine (and performs great!). The motherboards that support the CPU have an issue with the chipset http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20030070-64.html Hopefully they'll be back on the market soon because it really performs for me (i7-2600k).
Looking over your specs, I think you'll end up with a pretty awesome machine. The price tag is a little high IMHO (I built a pretty comparable machine for about a grand less). But, I can relate to your desire to build your "last" FS computer. That said, the unfortunate fact is that everything we buy today will be obsolete in 6 months to a year. But, throw enough firepower at it now and hopefully it'll get you by well into the future.
I'm no hardware expert, but I am cheap, so for what it's worth, here's my thoughts on where you could save a few bucks (if you're interested in doing that):
* I'm also on board with 12 gb being a bit overkill. I run 8 gb and it is more than enough. Especially with FSX, I've heard that you reach a point where RAM is no longer a bottleneck; anecdotally, I have to think that's around 4-6Gb or so. 12gb would be more than enough, just keep in mind that more gb's doesn't always result in a commensurate gain in price vs. performance. Get triple channel if you can and pay attention to the timings. Nick N has several posts with more information on the SimForums.com site.
* In my opinion only, a 2TB hard drive is probably also overkill. The one you picked is a good choice though, 64mb cache is awesome and will deliver close to the same throughput as a 10k rpm drive. But, you can save around $90 by getting a 1TB. Granted, I don't know whether you're storing stuff other than FS on the disk, but in my recent experience, 1TB has been more than enough. With FSX and FS9, 14+GB's worth of mesh, add on scenery, aircraft, downloads, other programs, etc. on my drive (aka, everything I think I'd ever need), I'm at about 1/3 usage on my 1TB drive. For storage of other, "important" files (photos of my son's birth, tax documents, etc), I use an external SSD backup drive.
* The SSD will blow your mind. 120GB is definitely plenty for your OS. I use a 60 gb OCz SSD and Win 7 Ultimate 64bit currently occupies only about 25 gb. I've read that with SSD's, you'll want to use up to about 85% of the capacity of the drive and I'm a long way from that.
* GTX 580 will be an awesome card. It benchmarks much better than the GTX470 I'm using and I've been way impressed with that card so far.
* I guess the only thing I would add is that if you have the extra parts (from your old machine) and the space, you might look at running an FS-only machine AND a secondary "support" machine (used for Activesky, web browsing, Acars, squawkbox, charts, etc.) and networking the two using simconnect / WideFS. This shifts a lot of the background processing to another machine and lets your gaming machine dedicate cycles to just FS-related tasks. Just a thought.
Good luck with your build - we'll be expecting a full report!
Trevor BairSenior Captain, MD-88
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DVA8993
Captain, B747-400
Joined on August 14 2010
Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
"KJBR go Red Wolves" Washington, DC
185 legs, 837.1 hours
62 legs,
214.0 hours online 185 legs,
837.1 hours ACARS 202 legs, 858.6 hours total
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Posted onPost created on
February 18 2011 12:12 ET by William Stroud
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The latest I've heard is the issue is fixed, and the mobos are being shipped out again to 'tier-1' companies. Unfortunately, a large number of them are going into laptops. Again, though, the 2600k is the way of the future, and with a new build and a GTX 580, I wouldn't want to be limited by my CPU. They are also great overclocking chips if you get a good cooling solution.
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DVA6497
Captain, B747-400
Joined on January 15 2006
Everett 250 Club
Triple Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
"RLTW" Kerkrade, Limburg NL
366 legs, 574.8 hours
14 legs,
20.0 hours online 365 legs,
568.9 hours ACARS
|
Posted onPost created on
February 18 2011 14:18 ET by Ken Tucker
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Trevor, thanks for your insight. Everyone knows that no-one ever has the biggest, best, fastest computer for longer than a day as the next one comes down the line about that quick. As this will be my last FS computer, I figured I'd go big. Thus, 12GB of triple channel would be plenty but I wasn't aware of a potential bottleneck; I'll research that more. I'm a hoarder and I'm currently about 55% through the 2TB drive I currently have with almost 200GB or MSFS stuff (FSX & FS9) and ~80GB of family photos. Data storage requirements never go down, so I should be fine for the foreseeable future, especially with the BR burner for long term storage. Finally, what are your thoughts on the ability of this machine, or one like it, to run >EVERYTHING< on it rather than needing WideFS? As MSFS hasn't had an update in a couple of years, I would've guessed that the tech would catch up and run it better now. I'm not especially adverse to pushing REX and ACARS off the primary box. I really would rather have everything on the same box but I'll push to WideFS (as I do now) to meet my tech requirements. Thanks.
Cheers!!
Ken TuckerCaptain, B747-400
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DVA6497
Captain, B747-400
Joined on January 15 2006
Everett 250 Club
Triple Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
"RLTW" Kerkrade, Limburg NL
366 legs, 574.8 hours
14 legs,
20.0 hours online 365 legs,
568.9 hours ACARS
|
Posted onPost created on
February 18 2011 14:21 ET by Ken Tucker
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William, I don't know the advantages of the 2600k chips. Would you share some links to educate me, please? I would rather not have to mess with OCing or Extensive cooling solutions either, thus what I thought was the "big" chip. Thanks!
Cheers!!
Ken TuckerCaptain, B747-400
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DVA3696
First Officer, B757-200
Joined on November 06 2006
"De Plane, De Plane!!!" Victor, NY USA
91 legs, 184.4 hours
64 legs,
137.0 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
February 19 2011 09:53 ET by Joseph Glick
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Here are the links to a couple of forums I came across comparing the i7 960 and the 2600k. Everyone seems to think the 2600k blows away the 960:
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/297591-28-2600-gaming-performance#t2234125
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=668135
Also, a nice benchmark test:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4083/the-sandy-bridge-review-intel-core-i7-2600k-i5-2500k-core-i3-2100-tested/20
Hope this helps!
Joe
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DVA6497
Captain, B747-400
Joined on January 15 2006
Everett 250 Club
Triple Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
"RLTW" Kerkrade, Limburg NL
366 legs, 574.8 hours
14 legs,
20.0 hours online 365 legs,
568.9 hours ACARS
|
Posted onPost created on
February 19 2011 10:42 ET by Ken Tucker
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Hey, Joseph, thanks for that info! Just one question. Are the reviews looking at the same chips when the 2600K is a 1155 socket and the i970 is a 1366? Be gentle, just wanting to make sure we're comparing apples to apples, not to oranges. If the socket types are irrelevant, then the 2600K becomes the obvious choice. That, in turn, forces a change in MoBo types too. Right away, I can see that the 1366 board allows 1866 RAM, whilst the 1155 socket limits to 1600(P67) or 1336(H67). Would this be noticeable difference?
Cheers!!
Ken TuckerCaptain, B747-400
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DVA3696
First Officer, B757-200
Joined on November 06 2006
"De Plane, De Plane!!!" Victor, NY USA
91 legs, 184.4 hours
64 legs,
137.0 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
February 19 2011 11:38 ET by Joseph Glick
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Ken,
The socket type is essentially irrelevant, since the 2600k requires the 1155 socket, and the i7 9xx requires the 1366 socket. You can't put a 2600k in a 1366 socket, or vise-versa. So if you wish to use the 2600k, you will need an 1155 socket motherboard. That info about the RAM speeds is incorrect, as both socket types should allow speeds at or in excess of 2000mhz (check ASUS's website, it should tell you) Keep in mind, though, you will also need to change your RAM, since the 1155 motherboard runs RAM in dual channel, not tri channel. The XMS3 is available in dual channel, though. One last note, I would reccomend the P67 chipset, not the H67, as the H67 is geared toward users who wish to use the onboard graphics, and the P67 is geared toward those who game.
Hope this answeres your questions!
Joe
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DVA6497
Captain, B747-400
Joined on January 15 2006
Everett 250 Club
Triple Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
"RLTW" Kerkrade, Limburg NL
366 legs, 574.8 hours
14 legs,
20.0 hours online 365 legs,
568.9 hours ACARS
|
Posted onPost created on
February 20 2011 14:49 ET by Ken Tucker
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Joseph, thanks, again! Guess I'm gonna follow Trevor's lead with this.
Cheers!!
Ken TuckerCaptain, B747-400
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DVA6497
Captain, B747-400
Joined on January 15 2006
Everett 250 Club
Triple Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
"RLTW" Kerkrade, Limburg NL
366 legs, 574.8 hours
14 legs,
20.0 hours online 365 legs,
568.9 hours ACARS
|
Posted onPost created on
February 20 2011 14:54 ET by Ken Tucker
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BTW, any ideas when they'll re-release the 2600k/1155?
Ken TuckerCaptain, B747-400
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DVA3696
First Officer, B757-200
Joined on November 06 2006
"De Plane, De Plane!!!" Victor, NY USA
91 legs, 184.4 hours
64 legs,
137.0 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
February 20 2011 16:51 ET by Joseph Glick
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April is the target date for the new boards. Good luck with the new build!
Joe
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