Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler | PC Support |
Where's the voodoo in this? |
DVA6497
Captain, B747-400
Joined on January 15 2006
Everett 250 Club
Triple Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
"RLTW" Kerkrade, Limburg NL
366 legs, 574.8 hours
14 legs,
20.0 hours online 365 legs,
568.9 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
March 14 2011 13:18 ET by Ken Tucker
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Fellas,
I've been watching the PC build threads for a while here, and even threw one up myself, but what I don't get is just how little a hardware improvement increases overall performance once the add-ons start piling up. Like a lot of y'all, I've got most of the major aircraft out there, 6GB of RAM, a 3.33Ghz proc running Win7Pro64, yet I still have severe performance hits once I start adding REX, UT2, Mega-whatever, etc. Even pushing programs across WideFS, using UD3 for the HDD, Alacrity for extraneous processes, tuning proc affinity, etc., I am reduced to >SINGLE< digit FPS after I've added ALL of my "upgrades" going into any of the major hubs. This is true for >both< FS9 & FSX. I have diligently followed the user's guides on AVSIM, for example, trying to tweak performance, to get that next little boost to cross the double digit threshold. I'm even in the process of compiling the components for my MSFS Killer system, for about >$2k, not including monitors.
What I've come to realize is that attaining monster FPS numbers with all of these programs running at the same time, let alone on the same box, is pretty much a pipedream, a Quixotic hope at best. I'm not saying it isn't possible, just that I don't have the voodoo to do this. Back in January, I asked for comments on my proposed MSFS Killer system and I did learn a few things and finalized my build. At this point, however, after seeing specs of other folks' systems, who are also having FPS issues, I have to step back and re-evaluate my conditions.
Assumptions.
1. FS_ relies on CPU cycles for performance vice GPU.
2. More Ghz are better.
3. FS_ does not multi-thread;
4. Multiple cores and/or procs are ignored by FS_.
5. FS_, being a native 32bit program, will not benefit from a 64bit OS.
Requirement.
To run the following list of programs simultaneously, as appropriate, to achieve a minimum average of 25FPS with all optional sliders maxed out:
PMDG 744/MD11
Wilco 777
SSTIM Concord
Level-D 767
Megascenery anywhere
Real Environment Extreme
Active Sky Evolution
Ultimate Traffic 2
FS Dream Team sceneries
Blueprint Simulations sceneries
FlyTampa! sceneries
Aerosoft scenery
FSGenesis Terrain Mesh
Imagine Sim sceneries
Just Flight sceneries
Ultimate Airport Environment
Shockwave
Florida Landings
FSCommander 8/9
Radar Contact 4
FSCrew Voice Commander
FSPassenger
Note: Naturally, we can fly only one airframe at a time, just like REX for texture and ASE for engine, but I wanted to show the level of complexity required to support.
Given the specs from my previous post (http://www.deltava.org/thread.do?id=0x180e6) adjusted after Joseph Glick's insight to go with an i7-2600k proc if/when the 1155 mobos are released.
So there's your homework. If the system given won't meet the requirements, what will? Or are my expectations too high and I have to resort to diminished capabilities, such as cutting out Mega-everything, pulling sliders back? Or are my initial assumptions wrong, throwing out the entire line of reasoning. This isn't a challenge for folks to prove their systems perform to their expectations. I'm trying to see if it's worth my time/money to meet MY expectations. I do appreciate y'all taking the time out to read and contribute and I look forward to the discussion.
Cheers!!
Ken TuckerCaptain, B747-400
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DVA7016
Senior Captain, B767-300
Joined on February 14 2009
B757 100 Club
Everett 250 Club
Triple Century Club
DVA Five-Year Anniversary
"I5 2500K - 560GTX - 8GB Ripjaw" Essex GB
385 legs, 1,090.6 hours
384 legs,
1,089.6 hours ACARS 1,821 legs, 4,442.9 hours total
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Posted onPost created on
March 14 2011 14:18 ET by Alan Barber
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Hi Ken, what 3.33 proc are you running? Looking at your list of addons, I have got most. Taking the various planes out of the equation, in that you can only fly one at a time ;-), I dont have megascenery, UT2, FSCrew or FSPassengers. Instead of FS Genesis I have FSGlobal and use WOAI for traffic. On the flip side I use Ultimate Terrain. At the moment I run a E6750dc o/c to 3.08ghz with 4gb of ram and a Radeon HD5750. At JFK (FSDT) with full AI and a reasonable overcast I can get 18fps in VC view. If you are being reduced to single figures then depending on what your CPU is there is something up somewhere. If you can let me have a list of your full PC specs I'll do what I can to help
Alan BarberSenior Captain, B767-300
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DVA3196
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP, COMM
Joined on June 03 2006
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
Six Century Club
"pitchpowertrim.com" Anderson, MO
619 legs, 1,093.4 hours
292 legs,
503.1 hours online 580 legs,
1,026.5 hours ACARS 89 legs,
191.0 hours event 236 legs dispatched, 110.1
hours
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Posted onPost created on
March 14 2011 14:25 ET by Michael Brown
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Ken...the new mobo's have been released. I completed my new build last week.....i7-2600, 8GB RAM, and a Nivida 560GTX-TI video card. FSX works wonderfully.
I too have a ton of addons, much the same as the ones you listed above. After I was finished installing FSX, all the FSX service packs, SDK, and addons I did one tweak and one tweak only to get great performance.....
First, I'd delete your FSX.CFG (back it up forst just in case) ....after a while, and especially if you have been manually tweaking it, it can get cluttered. Then start FSX (to rebuild the CFG file) and load the default flight. Adjust all of you video and scenery sliders to where you like.
Now visit this website: http://www.venetubo.com/fsx.html
Follow the simple instructions and install the external frame rate limiter.
This site, and the modified CFG file it gives you, really helped me a lot....works wonders.
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DVA6497
Captain, B747-400
Joined on January 15 2006
Everett 250 Club
Triple Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
"RLTW" Kerkrade, Limburg NL
366 legs, 574.8 hours
14 legs,
20.0 hours online 365 legs,
568.9 hours ACARS
|
Posted onPost created on
March 14 2011 22:39 ET by Ken Tucker
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Alan, it's the E8600, out of the box, on an Asus P5W DH Delux with a POS GeForce 9500 GT and that's with Alacrity killing off all other unnecessary processes, though I expect UT2 is pulling more cycles that WoAI is. Even after yanking all traffic to zero, going into ATL or JFK reduces everything to a crawl. The REX textures or Megascenery is the culprit, however, I am loath to be rid of either. Thus, my desire to "want it all".
Michael, Asus hasn't shipped anything to New Egg yet, as they're listed just not in stock. I saw that site earlier this year and didn't get that much of an improvement and I was hesitant about an external frame rate limiter as the internal one works too well. What is the story on that, anyways?
Thanks for the support, fellas. Just another wonderful service freely provided by DVA!
Cheers!!
Ken TuckerCaptain, B747-400
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DVA7016
Senior Captain, B767-300
Joined on February 14 2009
B757 100 Club
Everett 250 Club
Triple Century Club
DVA Five-Year Anniversary
"I5 2500K - 560GTX - 8GB Ripjaw" Essex GB
385 legs, 1,090.6 hours
384 legs,
1,089.6 hours ACARS 1,821 legs, 4,442.9 hours total
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Posted onPost created on
March 15 2011 04:41 ET by Alan Barber
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Sorry Ken, who said this was a free service!! LOL!! Anyway I should have established this first but are you FSX or FS9? My figures on FPS were based on FS9. Even so, I can still expect to get 10-15fps on the ground at a busy airport in FSX with my set up. Here's some links to our CPU benchmarks:
Mine: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Core2+Duo+E6750+%40+2.66GHz
Yours: http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=Intel+Core2+Duo+E8600+%40+3.33GHz
One thing I have found (others may disagree) is that whilst FS in all it forms is CPU intensive, GPU power is required for AA in clouds. If set to high it stutters and stumbles like crazy if the GPU isn't up to it. What you may want to try is go to a busy airport like JFK set your weather to clear and make a note of FPS, then slew up to 10000ft go to external spot view and pan around and see where you are then. After that reload the flight and using manual weather set a 7/8 overcast with a 5000ft layer. Then rinse and repeat the above but slew up to just above the cloud layer so that when you pan around the tops of the clouds are in shot. If your FPS gets murdered in step two then its a fair assumption that your GPU is struggling with the AA. Kyle was having this problem and by scaling back on his AA a bit was able to get the sim running better, check here about two thirds down the page http://www.deltava.org/thread.do?id=0x18216
What HDD set up do you have? IMHO FS benefits greatly from being on a separate physical drive. As far as I can see it its because its not in conflict with the OS etc with regards read times and head usage.
Your assumptions are pretty much correct, although since SP1 FSX has utilized multi core, not as well as some admittedly, A neighbour of mine gets some pretty good results on a Q6600. Usage goes down through each core but it is still utilizing all of them. Again, IMHO, a 64bit OS does not directly help FS but the fact that it is more efficient does free up more resources. I have used FS through various incarnations of Windows (98, Vista LOL, XP32 & 64 etc) the best results I have achieved thus far are on XP64. I haven't been able to fully set up a W7 64 platform yet so that is just my experience so far.
Anyway - I've been rambling on for ages!! Check how your AA performance is and feel free to come back with any questions.
Alan BarberSenior Captain, B767-300
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DVA3196
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP, COMM
Joined on June 03 2006
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
Six Century Club
"pitchpowertrim.com" Anderson, MO
619 legs, 1,093.4 hours
292 legs,
503.1 hours online 580 legs,
1,026.5 hours ACARS 89 legs,
191.0 hours event 236 legs dispatched, 110.1
hours
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Posted onPost created on
March 15 2011 12:48 ET by Michael Brown
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FSX works best with frames set to unlimited and using an external limiter.
The site I posted above explains it all in a more technical fashion.
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