Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler | Airline Operations |
iniBuilds A310 (MSFS) Issue |
DVA13202
Senior Captain, A320
Diamond
Joined on March 02 2017
50 State Club
Globetrotter
US Coastal Club
US Mountaineer Club
Everett Millennium Club
Two Million Mile Club
Bi-Millennium Club
DVA Five-Year Anniversary
"QA Motto: "We're not happy until you're not happy"" Woodstock, GA
2,536 legs, 6,224.7 hours
2,533 legs,
6,217.6 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
November 14 2022 11:37 ET by Scott Brandenburg
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Heads-up to anyone flying the magnificent iniBuilds A310 in MSFS. Last couple of flights I've noticed a problem. If you use ACARS to load pax/cargo, it throws the CG so far forward that the "UP" trim setting is nothing short of ridiculous. I completed a hop from FLL to TPA, my initial reading required +17 NOSE UP trim. I dropped the CARS pax load to under 100 (was 240), and that dropped it to +6 NOSE UP. Still high, but better.
If you use ACARS to get your pax count, my suggestion is to not transfer that data from ACARS direct to the aircraft. (Cargo doesn't show up btw). Rather, take the pax count from ACARS and use the sliders on the EFB in the A310 to load pax. CG will be more reasonable and should make the aircraft a bit easier to handle.
Otherwise, go nuts - she's a real beaut, Clark..
-S.
Scott BrandenburgSenior Captain, A320
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DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
Platinum
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,240 legs, 8,963.0 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,898 legs,
7,756.1 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,276 legs, 9,097.9 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
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Posted onPost created on
November 14 2022 15:45 ET by Luke Kolin
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ACARS just loads the payload stations reported by the aircraft as having passengers. What does the EFB do?
Does loading payload via the standard MSFS dialog do the same thing?
Cheers!
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA13202
Senior Captain, A320
Diamond
Joined on March 02 2017
50 State Club
Globetrotter
US Coastal Club
US Mountaineer Club
Everett Millennium Club
Two Million Mile Club
Bi-Millennium Club
DVA Five-Year Anniversary
"QA Motto: "We're not happy until you're not happy"" Woodstock, GA
2,536 legs, 6,224.7 hours
2,533 legs,
6,217.6 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
November 14 2022 22:04 ET by Scott Brandenburg
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Hey Luke -
So here's what I've seen. No matter the load selected in the EFB, the payload stations shown in the MSFS dialog does not change. I can go "full" to "zero" in the dialog box, no net effect on the aircraft. Move the sliders in the EFB, the aircraft behaves differently, but the payload values do not change in the dialog. That said, pressing "load pax and cargo" on ACARS throws the CG marker way forward of the aircraft.
Sounds like a software coding issue to me. Any outside input (ACARS) throws the numbers off. Any internal (EFB or MSFS dialog) will move the CG, but within reason.
Scott BrandenburgSenior Captain, A320
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DVA5643
Senior Captain, DC-6
Gold
Joined on February 08 2008
Piston Prop Professional
50 State Club
US Coastal Club
Globetrotter
US Mountaineer Club
Flying Colonel
Everett 500 Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
"I'd rather be lucky than good" Hampton, GA USA
1,833 legs, 2,791.3 hours
5 legs,
3.8 hours online 1,826 legs,
2,781.3 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
November 16 2022 12:50 ET by Jim Daigneau
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I commented in the MSFS2020 thread, and yes, it's a beautiful model. I have the checklists but have not found anything like an AOM/FCOM or iniBuild guide to the airplane. Other than the many You Tube vids that are popping up now, I found my previous RW Airbus knowledge pretty handy. Is there anything like a publication out there?
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DVA13859
First Officer, B757-200
Silver
Joined on April 28 2020
DVA Two-Year Anniversary
Blacksburg, VA
89 legs, 177.0 hours
88 legs,
175.7 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
November 16 2022 14:00 ET by Donald Douglas
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While I appreciate the programming that went into this, as a personal rule, I never let ACARS (or any other app for that matter) modify my payload or fuel-- many of these modern payware use specialty programming, etc (ie, NOT the usual payload system in the sim) and it can have extremely adverse effects. Thanks for making that process optional (looking at you FSEconomy....)
ACARS tends to estimate my passenger counts wrong, but it doesn't really bother me. I plan in simbrief, load per the loadsheet, and let the chips fall where they may for the ACARS.
Flying the A310 now, it's a blast!
Donald DouglasFirst Officer, B757-200
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DVA13572
Captain, B737-800
Silver
Joined on December 04 2018
Carolina Club
B737 50 Club
DVA Five-Year Anniversary
Columbia, SC
93 legs, 146.2 hours
24 legs,
30.4 hours online 88 legs,
138.2 hours ACARS 3 legs,
4.4 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
November 17 2022 05:04 ET by Paul Perry
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Donald Douglas wrote:
While I appreciate the programming that went into this, as a personal rule, I never let ACARS (or any other app for that matter) modify my payload or fuel-- many of these modern payware use specialty programming, etc (ie, NOT the usual payload system in the sim) and it can have extremely adverse effects. Thanks for making that process optional (looking at you FSEconomy....)
ACARS tends to estimate my passenger counts wrong, but it doesn't really bother me. I plan in simbrief, load per the loadsheet, and let the chips fall where they may for the ACARS.
Flying the A310 now, it's a blast!
Same for me. I have loads of appreciation for the dev/devs who automate features such as Pax/payload however, I always manually set them with the EFB or in-SIM.
Paul PerryCaptain, B737-800
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DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
Platinum
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,240 legs, 8,963.0 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,898 legs,
7,756.1 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,276 legs, 9,097.9 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
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Posted onPost created on
November 17 2022 10:24 ET by Luke Kolin
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Scott Brandenburg wrote:
Any outside input (ACARS) throws the numbers off. Any internal (EFB or MSFS dialog) will move the CG, but within reason.
Send me all the config files in the aircraft directory. Let's see what a mess they have made of the payload sections. And send me an ACARS log when you attempt to load fuel and passengers.
Donald Douglas wrote:
While I appreciate the programming that went into this, as a personal rule, I never let ACARS (or any other app for that matter) modify my payload or fuel-- many of these modern payware use specialty programming, etc (ie, NOT the usual payload system in the sim) and it can have extremely adverse effects.
There is a whole class of payware where fuel and payload loading works consistently well. CaptainSim and PMDG immediately come to mind. When I do get aircraft that stubbornly refuse to work properly (like FlightFactor) we have the ability to turn it off in ACARS. That's what's going to happen in the next ACARS beta because this aircraft appears to be such poor quality (I use this term deliberately) in terms of interoperability.
ACARS tends to estimate my passenger counts wrong, but it doesn't really bother me.
And this again is entirely the developer's fault, either through poorly named payload stations or a weight per passenger that is custom, likely an irrational prime number, and completely undocumented. Fortunately, ACARS has a solution for this as well, I just need to know what the aircraft uses as its weight per passenger.
Nothing here is new, it just requires feedback from users.
Cheers!
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA6739
Chief Pilot, EMB-120
Platinum
PPL1 DISPATCHER
Joined on December 09 2008
50 State Club
Globetrotter
US Coastal Club
US Mountaineer Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Millennium Club
Million Mile Club
Online Millennium Club
Everett 500 Club
DVA Fleet Master
""We live to fly, no matter what"" Rio de Janeiro Brazil
1,294 legs, 3,181.3 hours
1,237 legs,
3,095.7 hours online 1,254 legs,
3,017.4 hours ACARS 30 legs,
62.4 hours event 1,369 legs, 3,450.6 hours total 157 legs dispatched, 449.1
hours
CURRENTLY LOGGED IN
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Posted onPost created on
November 18 2022 05:12 ET by Bruno Israel
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Donald Douglas wrote:
While I appreciate the programming that went into this, as a personal rule, I never let ACARS (or any other app for that matter) modify my payload or fuel-- many of these modern payware use specialty programming, etc (ie, NOT the usual payload system in the sim) and it can have extremely adverse effects. Thanks for making that process optional (looking at you FSEconomy....)
ACARS tends to estimate my passenger counts wrong, but it doesn't really bother me. I plan in simbrief, load per the loadsheet, and let the chips fall where they may for the ACARS.
Flying the A310 now, it's a blast!
Thats precisely the same way I do all my flights. Complex aircrafts have some very refined weight and balance behaviors that ACARS usually do not get along well. Speaking about the A310, it even simulates the way that fuel is utilized and is managed by the aircrafts systems to keep CG within it limits during flight, all precisely done by automation. Usually, when loading the aircraft using ACARS, the first problem I get is that I can't correctly select (inside ACARS) the precise number of passengers and cargo, what tends to lead to some unprecise balance.
I believe that would be a nice tool for more simple aircrafts, but for those more complex, is better to use the in-house option. A good example is the MD11 from SkySimulations (Not a good one for sure), that if you use any other weight and balance option than the provided tablet, the aircraft simply goes Nutz.
Regards,
Bruno.
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DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
Platinum
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,240 legs, 8,963.0 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,898 legs,
7,756.1 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,276 legs, 9,097.9 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
|
Posted onPost created on
November 18 2022 08:04 ET by Luke Kolin
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Bruno Israel wrote:
Complex aircrafts have some very refined weight and balance behaviors that ACARS usually do not get along well.
The PMDG birds would beg to disagree, even the MD-11. Well-programmed aircraft, even especially complex ones, have no issue at all. Poorly written and documented aircraft, on the other hand, do.
What doesn't help is that people say how ACARS doesn't work and rarely report problems. For what it's worth I've got the A310, am detecting it and as predicted it's using a non-standard pax weight amount, and MSFS has its usual frustrating localization for payload stations. But nothing we haven't dealt with ACARS before and resolved in other aircraft. I'm pretty certain the A310 will get there soon, no thanks to its authors.
Cheers!
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA6739
Chief Pilot, EMB-120
Platinum
PPL1 DISPATCHER
Joined on December 09 2008
50 State Club
Globetrotter
US Coastal Club
US Mountaineer Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Millennium Club
Million Mile Club
Online Millennium Club
Everett 500 Club
DVA Fleet Master
""We live to fly, no matter what"" Rio de Janeiro Brazil
1,294 legs, 3,181.3 hours
1,237 legs,
3,095.7 hours online 1,254 legs,
3,017.4 hours ACARS 30 legs,
62.4 hours event 1,369 legs, 3,450.6 hours total 157 legs dispatched, 449.1
hours
CURRENTLY LOGGED IN
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Posted onPost created on
November 18 2022 11:01 ET by Bruno Israel
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Do not wanted to sound that I'm blaming it on ACARS or in your efforts. As you already know, we users did not have a glance on how hard is to keep a system like this running safe and sound. As far as I know DVA is the only VA that has an ACARS with this Indepth system and innumerous functionalities. Thank you for your hard work.
Indeed, I did not report this particular finding, because at my POV it's so minor that you probably have more important things to do. Other point is, at least for me, I'm so used to get all my planning with Simbrief that its already standard for every flight, regardless of flying for any VA.
Anyway, will try to be more colaborative in the future and report those minor "issues" that I bump along.
Cheers
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DVA13859
First Officer, B757-200
Silver
Joined on April 28 2020
DVA Two-Year Anniversary
Blacksburg, VA
89 legs, 177.0 hours
88 legs,
175.7 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
November 18 2022 18:07 ET by Donald Douglas
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And for me, honestly, the minutiae of planning and loading the proper weights myself is an enjoyable aspect of simming, but I'm sure that's not the case for everyone!
Donald DouglasFirst Officer, B757-200
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DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
Platinum
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,240 legs, 8,963.0 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,898 legs,
7,756.1 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,276 legs, 9,097.9 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
|
Posted onPost created on
November 19 2022 08:27 ET by Luke Kolin
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Beta 51 should properly detect the iniBuilds A313 and read the passenger/cargo loads properly. Fuel/passenger loading has been disabled with this aircraft.
Cheers!
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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