Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler | Airline Operations |
That poor APP controller |
DVA1329
First Officer, L-1011-100
Joined on September 22 2003
Western Europe
66 legs, 155.0 hours
53 legs,
132.3 hours online 5 legs,
20.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
April 24 2004 12:56 ET by Tim Slater
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I feel so sorry for him. Everyone could see he was stressed. I was just being vectored into a mountain, when I heard the noise of a jet engine. I switched to spot plane and saw this.
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DVA1600
Captain, B757-200
Joined on April 01 2004
Midwestern United States
23 legs, 47.4 hours
22 legs,
45.2 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
April 24 2004 13:24 ET by Brian Doney
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Yeah he was swamped. As pilots, we need to do what we can to make it easy on the guys when it's like that. That didn't happen today.
I have to admit I was a bit dissapointed by Delta's overall conduct, it seemed as if many of those who showed had never flown on VATSIM before, or at least not in any major event. It's never perfect, but alot of pilots were really clogging up the frequencies with chatter, taking an hour to thank ATC before being handed off(which even they don't like, BTW), there was this error and that error, pilot's slewing up to 55'000ft, pausing at altitude with a/c in trail, my GPS doesn't work, I don't know what route I filed, etc., etc. And gentlemen, please....you have a TCAS, it is not there for you to call out every a/c you see on it to ask if you will hit it or not.
"KC_CTR, I see a plane at my 2 o' clock, any factor ?"
"DALXXXX, no that a/c is 4000ft below you and 8 miles away..." <----happened like 100 times.
What are you guys gonna do when RVSM hits ?
Let the TCAS do it's job, and let the controller do his. If the controller screws up, that's what the TCAS is for. In those situations, do what it says no matter what and you will be fine. Calling out every a/c you make visual with is just plain annoying, very distracting for a controller, and uneccessary in any case.
I'm kinda new here, so I hope I'm not being to forward with my comments, but that's how I am. I know you guys can do better.
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DVA1427
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on December 14 2003
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
Tri-Jet Triumph
Globetrotter
Moose Club
US Capital Club
Everett 250 Club
Quincentenary Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
"Livin' in the Dog Pound!" Kannapolis, NC
558 legs, 1,984.3 hours
250 legs,
611.8 hours online 384 legs,
1,530.5 hours ACARS 38 legs,
82.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
April 24 2004 13:38 ET by Lewis Gregory
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Well, I think I caused some controller gray hairs today, unfortunately...
1.) The second I got off the ground at CVG, my controls went nuts. The rudder on my Saitek X36 overrode my CH Pedals and kept jamming hard right, which makes climbout somewhat, uh, interesting in a Mighty Dog. So finally when Indy Center cleared me up to FL390, I had to ask to pause and recalibrate...there was no way I could continue the flight in that situation, if I tried to land like that I'd crash for sure. The only problem was, Mark Lee (919) was seven miles in trail so I'm sure that screwed up the Indy Center controller's spacing.
2.) Something went flaky with my connect not long after entering KZKC airspace. It was like my bandwidth throttled back almost to zero, and yet I was able to go over to AVSIM and do a big download at 320 kb/sec. I think the cable company dynamically reallocated my IP while I was connected and it caused VATSIM and RW to go ape. I basically lost voice, couldn't get anybody to respond to my text, lost everybody on TCAS, and eventually, in order to continue the flight, I had to do a fast disconnect/unplug the cable modem/replug the cable modem/reconnect sequence. But, when I did that, I had Matt Young in his muscle car (CV-880) six miles in trail and DAL355 under me, so when I reconnected, I wound up with "TCAS ALERT" screaming in my ear as Matt's plane was a half-mile at my four o'clock. And the poor Kansas City Center and Denver Center controllers had to vector me hither and yon (and slow me from M.84 to M.73) to get me back in line.
So, I want to apologize for reflecting unprofessionally on DVA in those circumstances, but things do happen.
It comes down to preparation, I guess. Know the route, have the SIDs and STARs ready and at hand (I leave IE windows up in the background with the charts in them, or failing that I print them), know what your plane can and can't do. But, not everybody's an expert at this stuff, far from it, so I think we need to cut some slack along the way while we improve our skills and have fun...which after all is the point!
Lewis GregorySenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA919
First Officer, B767-300
Joined on November 03 2002
Century Club
Online Century Club
"It's a bhoys thing!" Western Europe
185 legs, 485.7 hours
101 legs,
306.1 hours online 4 legs,
13.6 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
April 24 2004 13:53 ET by Mark Lee
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Brian,
I have to say that I don't really agree with you. During the flight, not once did I hear a pilot go over the top about thanking a controller.
"(which even they don't like, BTW)"....You say they, does that mean your are not a controller? If so, how do you know they don't like it. I think I can speak for most controllers in saying that a little appreciation here and there goes a long way.
"KC_CTR, I see a plane at my 2 o' clock, any factor ?"
"DALXXXX, no that a/c is 4000ft below you and 8 miles away..." <----happened like 100 times"
I did'nt hear any transmissions like the above. Although, even if I did, the KC Center and Denver Approach Controller's were pretty overwhelmed, so I would not blame the pilot for just making sure the controller knew there could be a CA. And deffinetly not 100 times.
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DVA770
Captain, B767-300
E-MAIL
Joined on August 08 2002
Everett 250 Club
Quincentenary Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Midwestern United States
538 legs, 1,952.4 hours
3 legs,
5.5 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
April 24 2004 14:09 ET by Mike Paradise
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Brain...I agree with Mark on this one...
I did hear some pilots call out a/c but dude..i hardly consider that bad conduct...
As for the thanking thing...I thank controllers every time i leave their airspace...I say. "XXX_CTR/GND/DEP/APP/ETC Thanks for your hospitality. And i know that they all genuinly appreciate that i am not selfish and just fly with the disregard to others.
VATSIM and MSFS are for fun. If you don't like the way that some people handle themselves then you are the one with the problem. If you've got a problem in the future...my advice...Get over it
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DVA1600
Captain, B757-200
Joined on April 01 2004
Midwestern United States
23 legs, 47.4 hours
22 legs,
45.2 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
April 24 2004 14:39 ET by Brian Doney
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Gentlemen,
Showing gratitude to the controllers investing their time is of course a good thing, but do it OFFLINE. Every ARTCC has a forum, where you can post your thoughts and thanks. On frequency, during a busy event, when the frequency is already overwhelmed, is not the place for it. There should be NO uneccessary comms, period. The TCAS chatter runs along the same line. The more blah blah blah going on the more chance the controller is gonna miss something. Again, let them do their job, let the TCAS do it's job, and you worry about yours, which is to fly YOUR aircraft, not everyone else's.
BTW, you're right, I don't control on VATSIM, but my RL job is with a TRACON, not as a controller, but close enough for me.
Those that have PC troubles, well, I think it's your responsibility to disconnect as soon as you see trouble, right ? Amazingly, in two+ years I have never had a failure while connected to VATSIM. Never a crash, freeze, my joystick doesn't work, etc. I notice some of the same people having issues quite often. I am honestly of the opinion, that if you can't fix your pc, don't log on. A bit harsh, maybe, but it's kinda ridiculous what goes on sometimes.
Before two years ago, when I ran a PC that was less than capable, when I did have problems I was off the network instantly, period.
This is a hobby, and it IS fun, but we all pilots and controllers alike, still strive for that realism factor, no ? These types of things just don't happen IRL. I gurantee EVERY controller would appreciate quick, accurate comms over thank yous any day of the week. If your PC acts up don't sit there ruining someone else's time, get offline till it's fixed ! It only sounds harsh when you say it, but ya know what, these things should be common sense and not have to be said.
I don't want to argue with anyone, or offend anyone either. Thank you guys for keeping it civil, and not jumping on me for my opinion. I don't sugarcoat my opinions, because I think that defeats the purpose, and I appreciate you letting me express them.
Regards,
Brian
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DVA1600
Captain, B757-200
Joined on April 01 2004
Midwestern United States
23 legs, 47.4 hours
22 legs,
45.2 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
April 24 2004 14:57 ET by Brian Doney
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@Mike:
Ya know what, I pretty much agree, to a point.
If all DVA pilots are gonna go run around now patting each other on the back on how "poffessional" they came off today, and I can't agree, then that is most certainly MY problem.
I don't expect everyone here to say "Yeah I know we sucked", that wouldn't be true anyway, but don't try and act like there is no room for improvement. That's all I'm trying to get at. It's funny, how people will claim to be so into FS, and so proffessional, lol, until someone points out a fault, and suddenly it becomes "just for fun". Gimme a break.
I think you are taking my comments much more seriously than I am meaning them, sir.
Regards,
Brian
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DVA1140
First Officer, B757-200
Joined on March 16 2003
Double Century Club
Western Europe
254 legs, 1,137.4 hours
10 legs,
24.5 hours online 324 legs, 1,393.2 hours total
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Posted onPost created on
April 24 2004 15:39 ET by Daniel Counahan
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Brian
You haven't been here a month. We had something like this in march and it went very smoothly, i agree with mark even though i wasn't there. Theres no need to go on the rampage on something you don't know that much about. everyone here at DVA are as professional as can be, don't forget we are only human not robots. everyone makes mistakes its life. so plz don't go critising something that you won't win.
Cheers
Dan C
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DVA544
Senior Captain, B727-200
Joined on October 24 2001
Online Century Club
Triple Century Club
Southeastern United States
329 legs, 661.4 hours
186 legs,
368.2 hours online 47 legs,
90.0 hours ACARS 7 legs,
22.1 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
April 24 2004 15:47 ET by Joe DeGregorio
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How about we CAN the negativity.right now.
And I dont want to hear anymore about how bad DVA pilots were today....I saw some problems with the ARTCC's that im not going to get into.
Our goal was to have fun,and we did.
Brian,my suggestition to you,If you dont like DVA,find another VA.I will not tolerate any bashing of this airline or its members when its not warranted.
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DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,241 legs, 8,967.3 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,899 legs,
7,760.4 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,277 legs, 9,102.2 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
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Posted onPost created on
April 24 2004 16:22 ET by Luke Kolin
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I had to run once I disconnected to hit the beer store and fire up the BBQ before Heather's nurse left for the day, so I didn't see everyone coming in after me. I do however have two general comments to make.
First, there is *always* room for improvement in our flying. I don't think that anyone here seriously thinks otherwise, and it's good to have someone like Brian point things out as part of a debrief. Have any of us landed after a flight and said "we did stuff perfectly?".
That being said, there are two general observations that need made. First, any online flight in my book is a battle against the infrastructure and the equipment. Yes, we had Tom Haug slewing, trying to recover a bad bug today. We had Mark Lee with an FS crash. We also had IND_V_CTR with no voice, an overworked APP controller mess a few of us up. That's all par for the course in my book - stuff happens, and we all work together to overcome these technical limitations.
Yes, we all want to be realistic - but there are certain aspects of realism that we will never get. I'm never going to be making $160,000 a year flying for Delta, nor will I get Leo Mullin's pension package. The folks behind the scopes won't be getting whatever a GS-11 or GS-12 makes these days. We fly into Denver as a favour to the ARTCC there, and they control as a favour to us. There may be aspects of my online work that need a lot of improvement (since I'm a real hack online) but saying "thank you" for a good job will probably be one of the last things to get eliminated. If it means that I spend an extra second or two on the handoff, so be it - but I like to think that's part of what makes things worthwhile for folks.
The other thing I'll say is that overall, the flight went well in that we had a smooth clearance from CVG and the Indy staff (thanks, Matt Moak!!) and KC_V_CTR for those of you who aren't aware is proof positive of the high quality of the UVA pilots, since Matt Krelein is a familiar face to me on the UVA boards. Even the mixups with DEN_I_APP (I had to abort an approach and circle around) were handled well in my experience by both controller and pilots. Things can get a lot worse.
There's certainly a lot of room for improvement. There always is, and we need good folks like Brian to constantly point that out to us. You may not welcome it, but it's needed. What we also need to do - and this is just as important - is to focus on all the good things that happen. Compared to some of the ATC coverage we've had in times past (like Jackson Hole) today was great, and the pilots worked out well. Let's chalk one up in the win column and get ready for next month.
Our Vice-President on Events and I were chatting about who our next invited virtual airline for a group event will be. I'll let David make the announcement in good time. What I will say is that this is an airline smaller than DVA that manages to log almost as many hours per month as us, and probably more per month on VATSIM. May will be a real challenge keeping the wavy gravy flying high!
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA1044
Senior Captain, B767-300
Joined on January 12 2003
Century Club
"Fly Delta Jets" Roswell, NM USA
127 legs, 388.8 hours
62 legs,
199.3 hours online 2 legs,
5.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
April 24 2004 16:40 ET by Lloyd Arms
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Well I didn't make the flight today although now I'm not as upset about missing it as I was. I agree with Luke on most of what he said however Luke is much more diplomatic then I am or could possibly be. I think Joe and I are pretty much the same as far as diplomacy. There is always room for improvement however I don't think making any statement about us as a group being dissappointing is harsh in my not always humble opinion. Thats just my two cents and with that said did anyone get a exact number on how many DVA pilots made the flight? It looked like well over 30 from some of the screen captures posted here.
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DVA544
Senior Captain, B727-200
Joined on October 24 2001
Online Century Club
Triple Century Club
Southeastern United States
329 legs, 661.4 hours
186 legs,
368.2 hours online 47 legs,
90.0 hours ACARS 7 legs,
22.1 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
April 24 2004 16:45 ET by Joe DeGregorio
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I also agree with Luke,BUTTTTTT.......I didnt care for the tone or attitude shown of Brians critique of todays event...
I dont mind someone pointing things out,but when it creases the edge of the envelope,and borders on him being perfect and the rest of us being wrong....I draw the line there.
Ok..time to lock this thread before I get fired up,and I have to take an extra blood pressure pill.
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DVA1600
Captain, B757-200
Joined on April 01 2004
Midwestern United States
23 legs, 47.4 hours
22 legs,
45.2 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
April 24 2004 17:15 ET by Brian Doney
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Guys,
First, let me right away apologize to those that feel I am bashing DVA. That is not AT ALL what I am trying to do. I know I sometimes come off wrong in what I am trying to say, and I try my best to fully explain myself to avoid misunderstanding. I guess I need to try harder.
I also never meant to say that I get it perfect, cuz i sure don't. Real world pilots rarely do, either, not perfect, anyway. I think that these things are important to discuss though, because when I screw up, I APPRECIATE being told about it. We all contribute to each other's experience on VATSIM, and there are alot of things that we all can do to make these events better for everyone involved. I hope this is a place where these things can be discussed. I promise to try and express things a bit more appropriately in the future.
I also am a pilot for UVA, have been for a little while. I have to say, as much as I like flying for them, I really like the way things are done here. DVA seems alot more focused on actual flying skill/ability and training than other VA's I've checked out, including UVA. Why not carry this over into VATSIM "etiquette", for lack of a better word ?
I dunno, it is all in good fun I guess, but it would take so little to make things a lot better. We can't change the infrastructure of VATSIM, and it's inherent limitations, but we can take steps as pilots to work around them.
I really hope I haven't overstepped my bounds, and I am truly sorry if I offended anyone, but I am not sorry for speaking my mind. I would always expect you to do the same for me.
Regards,
Brian
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DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,241 legs, 8,967.3 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,899 legs,
7,760.4 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,277 legs, 9,102.2 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
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Posted onPost created on
April 24 2004 18:11 ET by Luke Kolin
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Brian, I certainly appreciate you pointing out what you do. I also think that overall, more things went right than went wrong today. Having shown up for a number of the DVA group flights, we've had some real challenges over the past few weeks and months - and I think we're better off today than we were four months ago.
That's probably the only thing I would say unfavorably about your posts. They're accurate, but I think lacking in an appreciation of some of the big picture and what went right.
Perhaps I am a little too critical of DVA piots, but I suspect that many of them are hacks like me. I can fly a SID and a STAR reasonably well, but I have little time for pre-flight preparation compared to other folks. My idea of a good flight is to not have FS crash, stay out of everyone's way and not have the controllers or other pilots yell at me. Most of the time I can do that. I think that I'm not alone, and the other folks we have here who are more committed are dragging the rest of our strandards up wether we want to or not.
In every group flight, there is good and bad. Let's not let the failings cause us to lose sight of the fun we have and the good things we do, and let's let the converse be true too.
Cheers!
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA1194
Senior Captain, MD-88
E-MAIL
Joined on April 18 2003
Century Club
Southeastern United States
112 legs, 349.3 hours
42 legs,
66.7 hours online 1 legs,
1.3 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
April 24 2004 19:06 ET by Matthew Sisson
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lol, I agree Luke...I swear the perfect VATSIM flight will come when we can load 1 program, SB and FS and that's it. I have so many programs going and trying to get everything right. It took me 4 attempts to load FS up for the DEN to LAX flight. Then I was beginning to wonder if I was going to keep it running at times during the cruise. and I hate trying to find the flights and plugging them into FMC and everythign and getting the SIDs and STARs it takes so much time. That's why I mainly just fly off-line unless it's an event of some kind...
BTW: Did LAX put their event on the VATSIM events page. I'm curios where most ARTCC advertise their events...VATUSA sight or VATSIM?
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DVA057
Senior Captain, B777-200
COMM
Joined on June 02 2002
Events Century Club
Six Century Club
Online Quintuple Century Club
Everett 500 Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
"We Are ... Penn State!" Atlanta, GA USA
672 legs, 1,338.4 hours
531 legs,
1,076.4 hours online 392 legs,
786.1 hours ACARS 190 legs,
406.3 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
April 24 2004 20:01 ET by Terry Eshenour
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For all to know so we can put this discussion to rest and go on with our flying, I corresponded with Brian earlier this evening about the public criticism of Denver?s ATC service and Delta pilot behavior. While we all have the right to voice our opinions there are appropriate ways to make statements that represent our airline.
When we participate on a DVA organized event, inform the organizer or senior management of a matter that needs addressing. Let them take appropriate action. If you have a misunderstanding with a specific controller send them a private message or correspond with the ARTCC Chief after the event.
Refrain from making public forum statements, which represent or imply DVA, particularly those that are not constructive and supportive. Not only do they inflame but also they create a perception about our airline. Perceptions take time to correct and change sometimes never.
Above all keep in perspective that this is a hobby that we participate in for a vast variety of reasons. The common denominator is that we enjoy aviation. Lets enjoy aviation and not take ourselves too seriously.
Terry EshenourSenior Captain, B777-200
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DVA1044
Senior Captain, B767-300
Joined on January 12 2003
Century Club
"Fly Delta Jets" Roswell, NM USA
127 legs, 388.8 hours
62 legs,
199.3 hours online 2 legs,
5.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
April 24 2004 20:08 ET by Lloyd Arms
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Well put Terry, Still can anyone tell me how many Delta Pilots showed up? It sure looked like a possible record
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DVA1427
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on December 14 2003
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
Tri-Jet Triumph
Globetrotter
Moose Club
US Capital Club
Everett 250 Club
Quincentenary Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
"Livin' in the Dog Pound!" Kannapolis, NC
558 legs, 1,984.3 hours
250 legs,
611.8 hours online 384 legs,
1,530.5 hours ACARS 38 legs,
82.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
April 24 2004 20:17 ET by Lewis Gregory
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I checked on Servinfo and counted somewhere around 28 or 29 at 1:30 pm EDT. I think there were 36 in my list but not all of them were DVA or participating in the event, and I couldn't get Servinfo to select on airline *and* origin *and* destination.
It wouldn't surprise me if we had 32-35 people make the flight overall. With over 40 signups that sounds quite possible.
Lewis GregorySenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA1329
First Officer, L-1011-100
Joined on September 22 2003
Western Europe
66 legs, 155.0 hours
53 legs,
132.3 hours online 5 legs,
20.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
April 25 2004 02:57 ET by Tim Slater
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I may be getting a little too philosophical here, but here goes.
What is everyone aiming for in this event? Well, hopefully they shoud be aiming to fly and conduct to the best of their ability. Many of the threads above have talked about good and bad conduct, but think about this. Good is no more than a comparison to bad. If there was no bad in the flight, no muck ups, no traffic conflicts, no "overusing" the frequency, there would be no good either. Good cannot exist without bad, simple as. This is simply because when you say "that was good," all you are doing is comparing it to something worse that could have happened. So what happens when nothing worse could have happened? The end result is a boring flight for both pilot and controller.
Pilot: "Center, DAL1329 with you at FL350."
ATC: "DAL1329, good afternoon, proceed on course."
ATC: "DAL1329, leaving my airspace to the west, contact Denver Center on ***."
Pilot: "Denver Center on ***, DAL1329, bye."
Pilot: "Center, DAL1329 with you at FL350."
ATC: "DAL1329, good day, proceed on course."
ATC: "DAL1329, cross DANDD at FL190 and 250kts."
Pilot: "FL190 and 250kts, DAL1329."
ATC: "DAL1329, contact Denver Approach on ***."
Pilot: "Denver Approach on ***, DAL1329, bye."
Pilot: "Denver Approach, DAL1329 with you at FL190."
ATC: "DAL1329, rgr, proceed on course."
Is this really what you want for your "perfect" flight? To me this looks no different than if I had just flown offline. Wouldn't it be much more fun if there were a few imperfections, a few mistakes. Or maybe just something like a traffic warning to break this robotic ATC.
Pilot: "Center, DAL1329 with you at FL350."
ATC: "DAL1329, welcome to the party, proceed on course."
Pilot: "DAL1329, I have DAL1234 at my 2 o'clock and receiving TCAS alerts."
ATC: "DAL1329, what is your current heading."
Pilot: "hdg ***, DAL1329."
ATC: "DAL1329, turn left heading *** for separation."
Pilot: "left ***, DAL1329."
ATC: "DAL1329, conflict no longer a factor, proceed on course."
Pilot: "Proceed on course, DAL1329."
ATC: "DAL1329, leaving my airspace to the west, contact Denver Center on ***, cya soon."
Pilot: "Denver Center on ***, ATC very much appreciated, DAL1329, bye."
Pilot: "Denver Center, DAL1329 with you at FL350."
ATC: "DAL1329, hi there, proceed on course."
Pilot: "proceed on course, DAL1329."
ATC: "DAL1329, expect to cross DANDD at FL190 and 250kts."
Pilot: "FL190 and 250kts, DAL1329."
ATC: "DAL1329 contact Denver Approach on ***, cya."
Pilot: "Denver APP on ***, DAL1329, bye bye.
Pilot: "KDEN_APP, DAL1329, with you at FL190."
ATC: "DAL1329, thankyou, please reduce speed as much as possible to avoid conflict."
Pilot: "rgr, reducing speed, DAL1329."
Now which of those would you prefer?
Regards,
Tim
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DVA803
Senior Captain, CRJ-200
E-MAIL
Joined on August 22 2002
Online Century Club
Double Century Club
Midwestern United States
210 legs, 339.3 hours
199 legs,
324.4 hours online 2 legs,
4.9 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
April 25 2004 07:15 ET by Matt Moak
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Hi guys. I know that there are several pilots here that are also controllers... but I feel that my situation is unique in that I am a DVA Chief Pilot and an ARTCC Chief. Let me tell you that there is nothing more disheartening to a controller than to get negative feedback. I have had ATC before that could have been done better by a 5 year old kid... but it's always wise to go along with it, keep your cool, and just try to enjoy yourself. If something is frustrating you... just private message the controller and ask him about it. Not only does this keep a good relationship between your VA and your ATCs on VATSIM, but it also is a surefire way not to get suspended. It's NEVER a good idea to tell a controller how to do their job or fight with them about it. I've seen it happen before and I know the consequences of it. Just keep in mind that it's a hobby... be patient with the controllers, and they'll be patient with you!
Matt
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DVA1567
First Officer, B757-200
Joined on March 13 2004
Grayson, GA USA
62 legs, 107.6 hours
37 legs,
63.4 hours online 11 legs,
16.7 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
April 25 2004 07:24 ET by Kyle McDuffee
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Hey guys, I'v ebeen here for only a month or two now, but the best advice I can give you guys about this situation is this. You have to understand that ATC is only there to guide you. They can't tell you every single thing that you need to do. You are the pilot, you need to make the decisions of your actions yourself. When you have an aircraft close don't ask ATC about it, just notify them that your goin to seperate yourself from them a little. They won't argue, unless another aircraft would be in your way. That's your job is to fly that aircraft yes, but also coordinate yourself to make the flight the most simplest it can be, you don't want it too complex. That's when you start getting frustrated pilots and controllers. That's my word into this situation. Hope you take it in for some use, cya guys in the sky!
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DVA1582
Captain, B737-800
Joined on March 03 2004
Arcadia, IN USA
48 legs, 165.1 hours
47 legs,
161.4 hours online 5 legs,
16.7 hours ACARS 4 legs,
10.8 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
April 25 2004 07:45 ET by Robert Isabell
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Hello to all,
Since joining DVA I have been telling myself that I can do this. I am not a real pilot, but have always dreamed of being one. Yesterday was my first group flight with all of you and I was quiet amazed at the turnout. I started out of the gates late and was glade that I did. I did not know what to expect so I brought up the rear so that I could hear how ATC would handle the large onslaught of aircraft from two VAs, I was empressed. I was also happy to have gotten some good advise from my fellow DVA pilot Trevor Fenimore to be last comeing out, so thank you Trevor. When I clicked on the VATSIM map I could not believe my eyes seeing the string of aircraft converging on KDEN. I was about 45 min behind and thought what will the airspace be like once I got there, unfortunately most of the traffic was minimal. I like some of you experinced some technical difficulties, but will refrain myself for commenting about. I know now that I have to practice and practice and practice.
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DVA953
Senior Captain, B737-800
E-MAIL
Joined on November 17 2002
50 State Club
Double Century Club
Online Double Century Club
"V1 means V1..." West Lafayette, IN USA
214 legs, 376.8 hours
211 legs,
373.0 hours online 117 legs,
223.6 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
April 25 2004 09:27 ET by James Brickell
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There is a certain amount of trust involved when you fly with ATC. Trust them. They can maintain separation, it's what we (I, when it comes to ATL) train them to do. Now, if you're absolutely certain something is wrong (like you need your crossing restriction) then feel free to speak up, along the lines of:
DAL953: Requesting lower sir.
ATL_CTR: DAL953, sorry sir. Descend at pilot's discretion, cross WOMAC at 13,000, and 250 knots, ATL altimeter 3001.
And also, it's perfectly acceptable for this:
ATL_V_CTR: DAL953, Indy on 119.55 now, good night sir.
DAL953: 19.55 for DAL953, thanks for the service sir, good night
IND_V_CTR: DAL953, contact Cincinatti Approach, 128.7, good night
DAL953: To approach, good night and thanks, DAL953
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DVA544
Senior Captain, B727-200
Joined on October 24 2001
Online Century Club
Triple Century Club
Southeastern United States
329 legs, 661.4 hours
186 legs,
368.2 hours online 47 legs,
90.0 hours ACARS 7 legs,
22.1 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
April 25 2004 09:41 ET by Joe DeGregorio
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I wish you could listen to Approach and ground here in BTR in real life......there is a certain controller who makes it a joy to fly under his ATC guidance,his wit/humor break the bland ATC, of some places.
And this is real life mind you.
I dont know what ARTCC in real life Mr. Brian is working,but not all are Bland.
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DVA1600
Captain, B757-200
Joined on April 01 2004
Midwestern United States
23 legs, 47.4 hours
22 legs,
45.2 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
April 25 2004 12:05 ET by Brian Doney
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Joe,
Would you care to discuss your obvious personal issues with me in private ?
Everyone else,
Look, it's become painfully obvious that this discusion can not be had, lest people's feelings get hurt. I had hoped for more maturity and frankness, instead I got defensive animosity, and the point is still "going missed'.
If you each are happy with your VATSIM experience, see no need to improve, learn, talk, etc., then disregard this post and let it fade off the front page. I've learned all I need to know about DVA to not post another word about the issue, as criticism is obviously not welcome. I am far from perfect, but at least I accept and admit my faults and shortcomings, and don't try to hide behind it being all for "fun". NO ONE was attacked on a personal level here, by me. It is simply my opinion that DVA needs to work on how it is represented on VATSIM. Obviously my mistake to think that this forum was a place the issue could be raised.
By the way, UVA is having a good laugh at us in the Screen Shot forum over there, but that shouldn't bother you, as it's all for fun right ?
If nothing else, at least keep the dialogue between controllers/pilots going.
Anyone having anything to say to me about this issue, can do so privately through my e-mail link, as I will NOT be revisiting this thread.
Brian
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DVA1329
First Officer, L-1011-100
Joined on September 22 2003
Western Europe
66 legs, 155.0 hours
53 legs,
132.3 hours online 5 legs,
20.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
April 25 2004 13:26 ET by Tim Slater
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*sigh*
Brian, I'm pleased your not replying because, I'm bored now. I hope you can realise that DVA, as a whole, flies seriously, but not so seriously that that we stop enjoying ourselves. You seem to still be talking as a member of UVA, not DVA. I hope you now see that DVA is "mature" enough to rise above mindless insults from other VAs, that is, what you were refering to in the screenshot forum. A lot of DVA pilots probably feel the same about UVA pilots' conduct but they are too curtious to say anything. I know I would question some UVA pilots, but I'm not going to judge UVA because of these small irrelevant instances. You obviously feel that perfection is necessary in your world. My suggestion to you is to go and fly on your own, in your own area of Vatsim and don't bother others when you see them behaving in an order which you do not feel is acceptable.
Thankyou,
Tim
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DVA1329
First Officer, L-1011-100
Joined on September 22 2003
Western Europe
66 legs, 155.0 hours
53 legs,
132.3 hours online 5 legs,
20.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
April 25 2004 13:28 ET by Tim Slater
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Oh, and one last thing. Yes it is still fun, whether or not other VAs are laughing at our less experienced members.
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DVA361
Captain, B777-200
Joined on November 06 2001
Online Century Club
Million Mile Club
Quincentenary Club
Southeastern United States
537 legs, 3,208.2 hours
131 legs,
661.6 hours online 58 legs,
272.3 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
April 25 2004 14:20 ET by Andy Jones
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"Look, it's become painfully obvious that this discusion can not be had, lest people's feelings get hurt. I had hoped for more maturity and frankness, instead I got defensive animosity, and the point is still "going missed'."
Wrong. People love this VA. Do you blame some of them for being upset at the comments made? And they have the right to express their opinions here just as you have. I think you're overreacting to this. After all sir, you are the one who initially began this odd discusion.
"If you each are happy with your VATSIM experience, see no need to improve, learn, talk, etc., then disregard this post and let it fade off the front page. I've learned all I need to know about DVA to not post another word about the issue, as criticism is obviously not welcome."
I agree with the first part but again I feel you're overreacting. Just because you feel attacked doesn't make it so. And again, I must remind you if you are going to post something which others may view as inflamatory you should be prepared to handle the fallout.
"By the way, UVA is having a good laugh at us in the Screen Shot forum over there, but that shouldn't bother you, as it's all for fun right ?"
I cannot speak for the other members but respectfully, I dont care about UVA. This is my hobby, for fun. And to be frank, every virtual pilot makes mistakes, even the ones who have a good laugh at someone else's expense.
As for the last comment. Good. I'm tired of reading this crap (even though I just added to it) but I had to get that off my chest. Thanks.
Andy JonesCaptain, B777-200
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DVA953
Senior Captain, B737-800
E-MAIL
Joined on November 17 2002
50 State Club
Double Century Club
Online Double Century Club
"V1 means V1..." West Lafayette, IN USA
214 legs, 376.8 hours
211 legs,
373.0 hours online 117 legs,
223.6 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
April 25 2004 14:47 ET by James Brickell
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FYI, I gave the UVA guys just a little bit of trouble on their board Friendly trouble, though.
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DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,241 legs, 8,967.3 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,899 legs,
7,760.4 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,277 legs, 9,102.2 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
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Posted onPost created on
April 25 2004 15:21 ET by Luke Kolin
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And on that note, we can wrap things up folks.
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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