Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler | Airline Operations |
Delta Virtual 2006 Design Competition |
DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,241 legs, 8,967.3 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,899 legs,
7,760.4 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,277 legs, 9,102.2 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
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Posted onPost created on
January 04 2005 18:00 ET by Luke Kolin
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One of my tasks as the VP of Technology here at DVA is to ensure that members like yourselves can participate in a fun and enjoyable community. Superior technology is a means of furthering that community, by providing you with features and convenience. I am uninterested in neat technology for its own sake. Anything we do needs to make your lives easier, provide you with valuable content, or bring all of you together. In 2001, we were able to create a great web site that has scaled successfully to over 700 users. In 2002, we expended our offerrings to include approach charts. In 2003, we added the Fleet Library installers and a regularly updated schedule, and in 2004 we added the Online Flight Kit, the updated Water Cooler and started on ACARS.
In 2005, I'm looking at a different focus. My goal is to eliminate a lot of the dependencies DVA has on external organizations. We've been very successful over the past four years in creating an organization that has gone through a number of changes at all levels of the volunteer structure, most prominently at the top. We're not dependent on any particular individual for most things, which is a claim that very few virtual airlines can make. The largest exception to this claim is, well, me. When I first started hosting the DVA web site in June 2001, I internally committed to doing this if at all possible for 3 years. Those 3 years are over and I'm still here, but ultimately the entire web site infrastructure is dependent on me and its non-relational nature has a number of significant hacks.
Those of you with long memories will recall that I had originally planned to do this back in the fall of 2003 when I had a few months off. Heather's health precluded this, but I still have an extensive collection of Excel spreadsheets and a spiral notebook that explains the layout of the new site. I've dusted this off and will be moving forward in 2005 using these plans.
Therefore, one of my goals for 2005 is to completely rewrite our infrastructure to be extensible, open and nowhere nearly as obscure as it is now. I've made the architectural decision to rewrite the site using Apache Tomcat 4.1, Apache HTTP server 2.0, and mySQL 4.x. The back-end code will be in Java, and the presentation layer will use JSPs. My goal is to provide a reasonably comprehensive set of JSP tag libraries to minimize the amount of coding JSP developers will need to do.
The first step in such a plan is to duplicate the data of the DVA site, using a relational layout in mySQL. Once I have a data set to work against, I can start work coding and testing. This is going to keep me busy over most of January. Dealing with pilot/PIREP/schedule/chart data is going to be simple - where stuff starts getting complicated is the testing center, Water Cooler, Events and Flight Assignments.
You can help me in this task. One of my goals is to eliminate the current frame-based navigation structure, and replace it with something that is simpler and and more standards-compliant. For what it's worth, I like the current design scheme. It includes Delta's colors while at the same time remaining exceptionally light on bandwidth requirements. I am perfectly prepared to use it, but I've also seen some mockups in the past that tell me we can do better. Therefore, I am looking for mockups for the new layout of the DVA site. Here are the conditions:
1) All need to be in static HTML that you can ZIP to me along with associated CSS files and images.
2) I need a mockup of the home page, pilot roster, PIREP form, Pilot Center and a Water Cooler thread.
3) You cannot use frames.
4) You must use CSS for all text and table formatting. You get bonus points for including a 2nd CSS file to demonstrate skinning (the 2nd CSS can be ugly, you just need to prove "skinability").
5) The current paradigm should be retained; nav bar down the left, title bar at the top, content in the rest. Both of these elements should use CSS positioning if at all possible to remain in position even if the content area scrolls.
6) You must remain extremely light on images, much the like the site is now. I don't want to see flash/schlockwave/applets anywhere.
7) You may not use any Delta trademarks, such as (but not including) the "widget" and the "wavy gravy". You can reuse the existing banner images from the site if you want.
8) We have a small standard palette of colors/fonts - just Tahoma, and a standard blue, red, green, turquoise and grey. Keep your palette small - I want just a few CSS text classes.
9) The site needs to look the same (but not necessarily identical) in Firefox and IE6. If you need a different style sheet to do this, that's fine.
10) Please provide me with mockups by February 1st, 2005.
I will review the submissions, and intend to post them on the web server for your comment and feedback. I make no guarantees that any will be chosen, and certainly not that any winner will not be altered. However, if there's something that's attractive, supported by our members and feasible for me to implement, I'd like to do it. I'll acknowledge your design in smalltype credits on the homepage as long as the design is in use.
My goal is to have the new site in place by January 1st, 2006. As I work on things, you will probably see mockups and test versions. This is a long way off, I admit. However, some of our counterparts have had issues developing updated web sites in a timely manner - and if you want to create something simple and elegant, it'll take a while. The goal is to have something that can run on Tomcat & mySQL anywhere, and be maintained by any reasonably competent Tomcat & JSP developer, and that requires careful design and documentation. You will not get spaghetti code from me.
My greatest accomplishment with DVA would be to create an indepedent organization that is entirely autonomous of myself or anyone else. In the past six months, our senior staff has matured and gelled to the point where my input has become unnecessary. I'd like to take our technical side to the same level, to where anyone can update the codebase, and it can be hosted anywhere - most likely on a faster server with vastly more bandwidth than I could provide. I hope that those of you with experience in HTML/CSS coding will assist me in this process.
Cheers!
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA1044
Senior Captain, B767-300
Joined on January 12 2003
Century Club
"Fly Delta Jets" Roswell, NM USA
127 legs, 388.8 hours
62 legs,
199.3 hours online 2 legs,
5.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
January 04 2005 18:14 ET by Lloyd Arms
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Luke I have a file server sitting idle now. It has been offline for several months. Its a P4 2.8 gig with a gig of PC-3200 and dual 120 WD Special Edition HDD's. I was paying for a static IP but since I don't spend near as much time at home I lowered my service. I would be more then happy to go back to static and reconnect that server.
It currently has Linux on it but I can load any OS that you would prefer. My ISP also has finally completed upgrading here where I live and my bandwidth rarely if ever drops below 500 KBPS. If that server in the corner gathering dust can be of use to DVA then let me know and we'll crank it up. I also have a older Solaris Sparc Server that is in storage but I can also place it online if needed. I love solaris because thats the only formal training I've had for computers.
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DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,241 legs, 8,967.3 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,899 legs,
7,760.4 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,277 legs, 9,102.2 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
|
Posted onPost created on
January 05 2005 07:06 ET by Luke Kolin
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Thanks for your kind offer. Once we reach the point where we are ready to start moving the system into production, I'm definitely going to be looking at all available options, including your own. Everyone should remember, however, that my use of the year 2006 was quite deliberate.
This is going to be a slow process, because complicated sites aren't created overnight. The other thing is that this is being developed with an eye to transferring development to someone other than myself; that means spending extra time on JavaDocs, JUnit tests and and ANT build scripts.
Cheers!
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA1550
Captain, CRJ-200
Joined on March 02 2004
Century Club
Sturgis, MI USA
106 legs, 145.1 hours
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Posted onPost created on
January 05 2005 14:48 ET by Charles Juszczak
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I have experience designing sites, but only a little with CSS. I'll see if I can whip something up though.
-Charlie
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DVA1267
Senior Captain, B777-200
Joined on July 09 2003
Triple Century Club
"Tactless, Understood, Right" Colorado Springs, CO USA
368 legs, 1,943.8 hours
47 legs,
192.9 hours online 54 legs,
217.2 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
January 05 2005 21:56 ET by Matt Reamy
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I don't have nearly enough experience to do anything like what you're asking, Luke. But I have some ideas here.
Have the water cooler be searchable by poster, ie clicking on the name in the "thread started by" column would bring up all the posts from that person.
Multiple guess format exams. I know this is a pain in your ass, but I truly think that MGF exams would eliminate a lot of confusion. Put it this way: the scorers wouldn't have to interpret an answer. I think that if enough work (because you just don't have enough work already ) went into the exams, you could make them just as difficult without the added difficulty of having the pilots find the wording that will pass muster with you guys. For instance: on one of my exams, the question was how often are NATs updated, or something like that. I answered 12 hrs. There are two 12 hr periods in a day, right? It was marked wrong, the correct answer out of the Flight Encyclopedia: Twice Daily. This sort of thing shouldn't happen. Also, unless you want every exam to be graded by a person (and I could understand if you did), an MGF exam could be instantly computed by a program. (I don't know what would go into something like that. I know there's a pool of random questions an exam is comprised of. These are just some thoughts).
Third: Thanks for including support for Mozilla Firefox. That's what I use and it's invaluable to me. I think it's great that you're including that support.
I think that's all for now. I might have had some other ideas earlier, but I blew my wheels out trying to become a developer in one day!
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DVA1933
Senior Captain, B727-200
Joined on September 19 2004
Triple Century Club
Monterrey, NL Mexico
357 legs, 860.4 hours
72 legs,
132.3 hours online 255 legs,
668.3 hours ACARS 1 legs,
1.9 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
January 06 2005 09:41 ET by David Eugenio Gomez
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Luke, I was thinking that maybe we could use several languages for the entire website, the most important ones (i.e. French or Spanish). If you do that, I could help with the translation to Spanish, so that many more non-English speaking people could join the site.
Regards.
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DVA1267
Senior Captain, B777-200
Joined on July 09 2003
Triple Century Club
"Tactless, Understood, Right" Colorado Springs, CO USA
368 legs, 1,943.8 hours
47 legs,
192.9 hours online 54 legs,
217.2 hours ACARS
|
Posted onPost created on
January 06 2005 10:18 ET by Matt Reamy
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Eugenio:
I can certainly understand this need, but unless we have enough people on here that can understand the other languages (and I'm not saying we don't), how could they be helped here in the WC? Someone who can speak the other language has to be able to see and respond to it. I'm not advocating excluding those who don't speak English by any means, but I think it should be clear that English is the main language (like in RW aviation). Just a thought.
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DVA1385
Captain, B767-300
E-MAIL
Joined on November 09 2003
Century Club
"www.flyaoamedia.com" Western United States
122 legs, 479.3 hours
72 legs,
282.0 hours online 36 legs,
162.1 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
January 06 2005 10:50 ET by Chris Palmer
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I am willing to do whatever I can to help out on the design portion/artistic side of things. If anyone would like to work hand and hand with me to whip up something simple yet modern, let me know. I'd be more than willing to dedicate my time to such graphics design for the greatest VA ever!
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DVA1933
Senior Captain, B727-200
Joined on September 19 2004
Triple Century Club
Monterrey, NL Mexico
357 legs, 860.4 hours
72 legs,
132.3 hours online 255 legs,
668.3 hours ACARS 1 legs,
1.9 hours event
|
Posted onPost created on
January 06 2005 14:36 ET by David Eugenio Gomez
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I think you're right, Matt. That languages idea just came to my head while looking at this 'sticky'
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DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,241 legs, 8,967.3 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,899 legs,
7,760.4 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,277 legs, 9,102.2 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
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Posted onPost created on
January 06 2005 17:20 ET by Luke Kolin
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I am not averse to internationalizing the DVA web site. As you can tell, most of our installers support no fewer than four languages - English, Spanish, Dutch and Brazillian Portuguese. I have been extremely surprised at the level of international participation we have managed to achieve here at DVA. Pleasantly surprised.
Translation brings with it its own challenges - namely that any new language strings need to be translated several times before they can be used. That being said, the new design will be done in such a way that translation can be easier. I think Pablo, Ariel, Sanders and Larry will tell you that the way the installers were designed made translation reasonably straightforward. The web site will not be done in such an easy way, but it will still be much easier than it is today.
Cheers!
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,241 legs, 8,967.3 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,899 legs,
7,760.4 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,277 legs, 9,102.2 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
|
Posted onPost created on
January 06 2005 17:22 ET by Luke Kolin
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Chris, if you want to design images, keep in mind that the new site will be like the current one - lightweight, but tasteful. I don't want to pre-empt anyone, but if you look at the United Virtual home page at virtual.united.com, that's a similar layout to what I intend to use. If you have some ideas for a new "top banner" image, I am delighted to take submissions there too.
Cheers!
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA1385
Captain, B767-300
E-MAIL
Joined on November 09 2003
Century Club
"www.flyaoamedia.com" Western United States
122 legs, 479.3 hours
72 legs,
282.0 hours online 36 legs,
162.1 hours ACARS
|
Posted onPost created on
January 07 2005 07:54 ET by Chris Palmer
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I realize the restrictions on what can be done. I know you're worried cause of the type of images I do, but with these guidelines will bring a great challenge for creativity and simplicity.
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DVA1603
Captain, B727-200
Joined on April 02 2004
Double Century Club
Albany, GA USA
266 legs, 399.1 hours
85 legs,
131.0 hours online 93 legs,
129.4 hours ACARS 2 legs,
3.4 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
January 08 2005 05:46 ET by Michael Wilson
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While I have no experience with Java, I do have experience with PHP/MySQL and would be glad to assist in the transistion. I have no doubt that I can convert myself to Java.
My layout skills are rusty, but I'm sure I can whip something up.
Like Lloyd, I also have a "server" sitting around the house, although it is not as powerful as his. You are welcome to use it as a mirror.
If you desire my assistance, drop an e-mail.
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DVA1550
Captain, CRJ-200
Joined on March 02 2004
Century Club
Sturgis, MI USA
106 legs, 145.1 hours
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Posted onPost created on
January 08 2005 18:35 ET by Charles Juszczak
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"I am willing to do whatever I can to help out on the design portion/artistic side of things. If anyone would like to work hand and hand with me to whip up something simple yet modern, let me know. I'd be more than willing to dedicate my time to such graphics design for the greatest VA ever!"
Chris, I would be willing to work with you, AIM: Unite744, MSN and Email: cjuszczak @ msn.com (without the spaces)
Let me know!
-Charlie
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DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,241 legs, 8,967.3 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,899 legs,
7,760.4 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,277 legs, 9,102.2 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
|
Posted onPost created on
January 09 2005 18:11 ET by Luke Kolin
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I have been very busy working on the data migration from Lotus Domino to mySQL. I've managed to create a database with over 62,000 records that has yet to include the Water Cooler, exams, registration or events. I'm going to start work on the other portions of the site really soon. It's comforting to note that out of the 62,000 records I've migrated, we only had referential integrity issues in around 20 of them - or 0.03%. The amount of statistical information I can obtain just by querying the PIREP data is an order of magnitude beyond what we can do now.
I am not going to be able to work with you directly, but please work together to build a great design. Some of you may have talents in images or CSS, so try and make something better than just what YOU can do. As I promised, we're going to put together some tag libraries so that those of you without Java/JSP experience can work on the pages.
Cheers!
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,241 legs, 8,967.3 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,899 legs,
7,760.4 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,277 legs, 9,102.2 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
|
Posted onPost created on
January 11 2005 17:58 ET by Luke Kolin
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Since I now have a datastore to work against, I've started writing Java code. I have an integrated Eclipse/Ant/JUnit development environment, so when I do a build I automatically run all of the unit tests and generate the JavaDoc, and then FTP the data to my server. You can see this at:
http://www.deltava.org/dva2006/index.html
The API will be public, but not the implementation. This may not mean a lot to you now, but as the API and Unit Test reports increase in size you can track my development progress.
Cheers!
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA1650
Captain, L-1011-100
Joined on April 24 2004
Century Club
"The O-N-L-Y Way to Fly!" Southeastern United States
103 legs, 174.7 hours
49 legs,
94.5 hours online 2 legs,
2.1 hours ACARS 2 legs,
3.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
January 15 2005 06:25 ET by Daniel Malneritch
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That looks pretty interesting...Are you gonna keep the favicon, it is the wavy thing...Why no Delta trademarks? Is it illeagal? Also, Firefox doesn't display some CSS stuff like scrollbar colors....and why no frames? because ppl turn off frames...?
Daniel MalneritchCaptain, L-1011-100
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DVA1385
Captain, B767-300
E-MAIL
Joined on November 09 2003
Century Club
"www.flyaoamedia.com" Western United States
122 legs, 479.3 hours
72 legs,
282.0 hours online 36 legs,
162.1 hours ACARS
|
Posted onPost created on
January 18 2005 13:08 ET by Chris Palmer
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Luke,
I need more clarification on the copyrite procedures you are speaking of as far as images go. What can and cant I use exactly. Thanks
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DVA1190
Senior Captain, B777-200
OLP
Joined on April 21 2003
Everett 250 Club
Online Quadruple Century Club
Quincentenary Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
"Never try, never fail" Greenville, SC
524 legs, 1,777.8 hours
490 legs,
1,650.8 hours online 144 legs,
373.3 hours ACARS 35 legs,
89.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
January 19 2005 15:01 ET by David Schaum
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I am NO graphical designer. I am also NO computer programmer. I'm just a humble virtual pilot, BUT, I feel the one thing we lack is graphical impact. From a programmer?s point of view, functionality is key, and to hell with how it looks. I know this because my father started writing computer programs back when anyone in this airline under 40 was in diapers.
I'm sorry, but no man ever tried to meet a girl that didn't please his eye first. The new site must have the bells and whistles from the graphics department. Open this area up to creativity is what I say. _ _ _ _ the lawyers and push the envelope just a little. We can do this and not be shut down or have to start any relationship with the real world Delta. EYE CANDY, Get some!! (besides, some people have been looking at the site for over two years and it would be nice to see a surprise one day)
Just my 2 cents worth.
David SchaumSenior Captain, B777-200
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DVA1190
Senior Captain, B777-200
OLP
Joined on April 21 2003
Everett 250 Club
Online Quadruple Century Club
Quincentenary Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
"Never try, never fail" Greenville, SC
524 legs, 1,777.8 hours
490 legs,
1,650.8 hours online 144 legs,
373.3 hours ACARS 35 legs,
89.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
January 19 2005 15:05 ET by David Schaum
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hehehehe, sometimes I just crack myself up when I read my own _ _ _ t...ROFL
David SchaumSenior Captain, B777-200
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DVA1892
Senior Captain, MD-11
Joined on September 13 2004
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Eurocap Club
Online Triple Century Club
White Pearl Accomplishment
Quatercentenary Club
Everett Century Club
"Fly Douglas Jets!" Buenos Aires AR
460 legs, 1,384.1 hours
336 legs,
1,086.5 hours online 271 legs,
726.6 hours ACARS 12 legs,
24.6 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
January 19 2005 15:31 ET by Gaston Doval
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ROFL, completely agree with you Dave.
Cheers!
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DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,241 legs, 8,967.3 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,899 legs,
7,760.4 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,277 legs, 9,102.2 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
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Posted onPost created on
January 19 2005 19:42 ET by Luke Kolin
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I have every expectation that some of the submissions I get will be quite pleasing to the eye. I like to think we created something nice and special, but at the same time a change would be nice. The other goal with the new design is to use a proper modular design pattern that completely separates the presentation from the business logic, so future upgrades will be much more painless.
That being said, the "wavy gravy" and the "widget" will probably remain off-limits. As nice as it is to push the envelope (and we have had the wavy gravy in the past) I am unsure if a compelling case can be made that the risks of using the designs outweigh the benefits. Let me also suggest that looking at some of our real-world counterparts like British and (espcially) United, _not_ being affiliated with Delta provides certain advantages in terms of what we can say and do here.
To clarify for everyone, obvious trademarks like the unaltered wavy gravy and the widget are off-limits. Everything else is fair game. If you wish to modify the two above-mentioned trademarks into a derivative work, I'll consider that on a case by case basis, with no guarantees.
Cheers!
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA1044
Senior Captain, B767-300
Joined on January 12 2003
Century Club
"Fly Delta Jets" Roswell, NM USA
127 legs, 388.8 hours
62 legs,
199.3 hours online 2 legs,
5.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
January 19 2005 20:29 ET by Lloyd Arms
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Luke its easy to see there are many recommendations as well as talent here to make a new/better website. I for one want to say that without you Deltava would never be what it is without you. To the point I want to ask once again. Has any of our staff contacted our real world counterpart? It seems to me that Delta Airlines would welcome us because of the professionalism that has been displayed during our group flights as well as here in our water cooler. We have folks of all ages, races, countries, sexes and I think we represent Delta online as well as can be done. I think that the folks in top floor of Delta need to understand that there are those of us who fly their airline and fly their colors with all the respect we can show and see if they won't recognize that we're fans of Delta Airlines and want to show others that. I cannot see any other reaction from them other then use us for some great PR on their behalf. You have performed miracles with this website. Our staff is the best available. Delta needs us and we should inform them of that. BAV has an agreement with their real world counterparts. Its time we do as well. With the way things are going for Airlines in the US right now a little bit of PR will do them wonders and might boost our pilot base as well. I remember as a child flying on a Delta 707 and getting a plastic pilots wings. My first two Jet Plane rides were on Delta. One was a 707 and the other a 727.
I know that is why I made DVA my home. I think its time that our real world counterpart recognize us and see that we love flying the wavy gravy!
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DVA1044
Senior Captain, B767-300
Joined on January 12 2003
Century Club
"Fly Delta Jets" Roswell, NM USA
127 legs, 388.8 hours
62 legs,
199.3 hours online 2 legs,
5.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
January 19 2005 20:33 ET by Lloyd Arms
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Correction. 727 and DC8. Just looked at the photos again. When I get my multifuction printer/scanner/fax back I have a couple of photos to share.
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AFV011
Senior Captain, B777-300
Joined on September 19 2004
GVA 5 Year Anniversary
Online Two Fifty Club
Triple Century Club
Historic Triple Century Club
"Remember...140, 250, and REALLY FAST" Midwestern United States
394 legs, 606.7 hours
274 legs,
430.6 hours online 86 legs,
126.5 hours ACARS 8 legs,
16.0 hours event 501 legs, 763.5 hours total
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Posted onPost created on
January 20 2005 02:01 ET by Michael Carter
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I agree with what Lloyd has said. There are several airlines that have the endorsement of their real-world counterpart and may use their logo's freely as long as it is not-for-profit.
I see no reason why Delta could not be contacted about an arrangement of this sort for us. Same for Air France.
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DVA1892
Senior Captain, MD-11
Joined on September 13 2004
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Eurocap Club
Online Triple Century Club
White Pearl Accomplishment
Quatercentenary Club
Everett Century Club
"Fly Douglas Jets!" Buenos Aires AR
460 legs, 1,384.1 hours
336 legs,
1,086.5 hours online 271 legs,
726.6 hours ACARS 12 legs,
24.6 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
January 20 2005 03:46 ET by Gaston Doval
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I agree with Mike and Lloyd. UVA has a special agreement with United in RL. They either host their website on the UAL server or they have a redirector there. RW airlines, as Lloyd said would welcome us. They are not in the position to reject any potential passengers as we are. We have a huge variety of virtual pilots, all of them Delta fans that I'm sure 95% of them won't switch to another VA, because this one is the best. That'll show them!
Cheers!
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DVA1550
Captain, CRJ-200
Joined on March 02 2004
Century Club
Sturgis, MI USA
106 legs, 145.1 hours
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Posted onPost created on
January 20 2005 11:12 ET by Charles Juszczak
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Everyone,
Chris Palmer and I have created a mock-up of the site that we will submit to Luke once we have the bugs worked out and it's completed.
We feel we were able to update the site visually while still maintaining it's functionality, we were also able to do so without using any Delta trademarks.
But, we are looking for any suggestions, comments, or concerns that any of you may have with our mock-up.
You can view the page by going here: http://deltava.charliej.net/ and clicking "1". After that if you have anything to say about the mock-up we ask that you email us at dva@charliej.net and it will automatically be forwarded to both of us. At this time we realize the site does load a little on the slow side, and that is caused by a combination of problems, my web host as well as some various things in the site that load slow, but we will correct that with the next round of updates.
Thanks for your opinions, we hope you enjoy it!
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DVA1190
Senior Captain, B777-200
OLP
Joined on April 21 2003
Everett 250 Club
Online Quadruple Century Club
Quincentenary Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
"Never try, never fail" Greenville, SC
524 legs, 1,777.8 hours
490 legs,
1,650.8 hours online 144 legs,
373.3 hours ACARS 35 legs,
89.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
January 20 2005 14:39 ET by David Schaum
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Coool Charles, you are on the right track.
Since you asked for opinions, I'm going to throw some in. One, I would love to see the usage of Blue the Dark shade close to the Dark blue on the on aircraft tails. I would like to see complete boarders around the entire screen. Also, is it possible that when you go to the site, the aircraft flies accross the top of the screen with a jet sound, then stops in the place you have it now with the red streaks trailing???
Wow, this is going to be fun.
David SchaumSenior Captain, B777-200
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DVA1892
Senior Captain, MD-11
Joined on September 13 2004
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Eurocap Club
Online Triple Century Club
White Pearl Accomplishment
Quatercentenary Club
Everett Century Club
"Fly Douglas Jets!" Buenos Aires AR
460 legs, 1,384.1 hours
336 legs,
1,086.5 hours online 271 legs,
726.6 hours ACARS 12 legs,
24.6 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
January 20 2005 15:06 ET by Gaston Doval
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Can we get the DALs authorization and partnership to use the widget? I'd love to see it on the site. Charles and Chris, really cool site I must say!
I second Dave's opinion. Could the blue be a little bit darker, like the Delta CS?
Cheers!
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DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,241 legs, 8,967.3 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,899 legs,
7,760.4 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,277 legs, 9,102.2 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
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Posted onPost created on
January 20 2005 17:53 ET by Luke Kolin
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YGM.
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA1550
Captain, CRJ-200
Joined on March 02 2004
Century Club
Sturgis, MI USA
106 legs, 145.1 hours
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Posted onPost created on
January 21 2005 01:24 ET by Charles Juszczak
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Thanks for the replies, we have one we created with a darker blue I'll get that posted today so you can take a look at it.
Chris really deserves most of the thanks because it's his design!
-Charlie
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AFV011
Senior Captain, B777-300
Joined on September 19 2004
GVA 5 Year Anniversary
Online Two Fifty Club
Triple Century Club
Historic Triple Century Club
"Remember...140, 250, and REALLY FAST" Midwestern United States
394 legs, 606.7 hours
274 legs,
430.6 hours online 86 legs,
126.5 hours ACARS 8 legs,
16.0 hours event 501 legs, 763.5 hours total
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Posted onPost created on
January 21 2005 09:03 ET by Michael Carter
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That looks really good and I have only one negative, loose the red outline around all of the graphics. Somehow, that just doesn't look right. Airline art-deco?
Other than that I love the layout and design.
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DVA1650
Captain, L-1011-100
Joined on April 24 2004
Century Club
"The O-N-L-Y Way to Fly!" Southeastern United States
103 legs, 174.7 hours
49 legs,
94.5 hours online 2 legs,
2.1 hours ACARS 2 legs,
3.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
January 22 2005 16:53 ET by Daniel Malneritch
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Actually,[if you mean the undelines on the menu] that looks good. If you've seen any of Delta's NewsDigests (a company magazine for Delta people), it looks like Delta. Awesome guys!
unrelated, but How do you get URLs like http://deltava.charliej.net/1/ with NO file name? I've been wanting to play with that for my website.
Daniel MalneritchCaptain, L-1011-100
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DVA1347
First Officer, B757-200
Joined on October 18 2003
Southeastern United States
12 legs, 27.6 hours
7 legs,
15.4 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
January 24 2005 12:17 ET by Ched Wiggins
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Wrt the Water Cooler, why not incorporate something like php-BB instead of a made-from-scratch system? A package like php-BB/php-nuke already has the features such as searching, PMs, user accounts, and all this stuff. It would be much more efficient from a code reuse stand-point than building a system from the ground up. Just my two cents.
A good example of a PHP-Nuke site is my WWIIOL squad here: http://www.ww2dogs.com
PHP-Nuke falls under the GNU GPL so it could be modified--added to or some things removed--to yield the functionality wanted for the DVA site.
Just my two cents.
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DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,241 legs, 8,967.3 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,899 legs,
7,760.4 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,277 legs, 9,102.2 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
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Posted onPost created on
January 24 2005 14:16 ET by Luke Kolin
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The problem you have with a lot of open source components is that you're stuck with the limitations that they impose. A number of other virtual airlines use phpBB for their discussion forums - and they have problems with the fact that user databases are not integrated and information cannot be copied over.
The "roll your own" versus "best of breed" debate is something I face often in my day job as a software developer. Deciding on one versus the other means you either end up doing a lot of reinventing the wheel, or you end up with a lot of integration headaches. While something may be open source, that doesn't necessarily make it easy to understand or modify safely.
I think we've been very well served with a custom platform since 2001. It's allowed us to incorporate a lot of good features - and the only limitations we've faced are ones imposed by our platform (which I intend to eliminate), my talents or my time. I think that this paradigm will continue to serve us well - a new custom system can be developed quickly and effectively from the ground up as a well-documented, free open standard system.
The primary motivation for using existing code is that you save development time, at the cost of feature drawbacks, a more opaque system and integration issues. I believe that we can with a custom system have something that is open, well documented (see http://dva2006.deltava.org) and without drawbacks in just as much (or little) time as a phpNuke system.
That being said, php is evil. If I did something similar and put SQL code in my JSPs I'd deserve to be publicly flogged, humiliated and summarily dismissed.
Cheers!
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA1550
Captain, CRJ-200
Joined on March 02 2004
Century Club
Sturgis, MI USA
106 legs, 145.1 hours
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Posted onPost created on
January 24 2005 15:42 ET by Charles Juszczak
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Daniel,
Your web server should automatically point to the index file. By index I mean your default page, in my case it's index.html. But depending on the host you can add a lot of different pages.
Everyone,
Sorry about not getting the new mock-up yet, I had something come up on Saturday and have been busy ever since, I should have most if not all of tomorrow and the rest of the week to play with it.
-Charlie
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DVA1347
First Officer, B757-200
Joined on October 18 2003
Southeastern United States
12 legs, 27.6 hours
7 legs,
15.4 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
January 25 2005 07:48 ET by Ched Wiggins
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php-Nuke extends php-BB; it is a whole system with user accounts, and each acount has a gallery, email, PMs, BB access, and access to other modules. It's not restricted just to BB interaction like php-BB.
But I though I'd just throw those options out; the best for DVA can be picked from among the set of all options. I haven't written a line of code in about 4 months anyway, and that was Java and didn't count.
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DVA1347
First Officer, B757-200
Joined on October 18 2003
Southeastern United States
12 legs, 27.6 hours
7 legs,
15.4 hours online
|
Posted onPost created on
January 25 2005 07:52 ET by Ched Wiggins
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PS JavaDocs is a great idea--one of the best since langauges evolved out of the primordial assembly soup.
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DVA1190
Senior Captain, B777-200
OLP
Joined on April 21 2003
Everett 250 Club
Online Quadruple Century Club
Quincentenary Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
"Never try, never fail" Greenville, SC
524 legs, 1,777.8 hours
490 legs,
1,650.8 hours online 144 legs,
373.3 hours ACARS 35 legs,
89.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
January 25 2005 15:11 ET by David Schaum
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Writing Software for Dummies question:
When a website has movement on borders of the webpage itself, for example, if we wanted a delta jet to fly across the top of the site when you first open/visit the site, that's ActiveX right?
Look at the following site and watch the top. What makes that s_ _ t happen?
http://naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp
David SchaumSenior Captain, B777-200
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DVA1008
Senior Captain, B757-200
Joined on December 14 2002
B757 100 Club
Everett 250 Club
50 State Club
Six Century Club
Online Six Century Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
"Fly 'till the map turns blue" Kokomo, IN
633 legs, 1,731.3 hours
613 legs,
1,689.9 hours online 212 legs,
792.3 hours ACARS 35 legs,
77.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
January 25 2005 16:38 ET by Matt Young
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That's Flash.
Matt YoungSenior Captain, B757-200
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DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,241 legs, 8,967.3 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,899 legs,
7,760.4 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,277 legs, 9,102.2 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
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Posted onPost created on
January 25 2005 18:51 ET by Luke Kolin
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... or an animated GIF, but that could get really big, really quick.
Folks, I'm just in the process of making a copy of the Water Cooler in mySQL. The whole thing looks like it might max out at around 30MB; which is really nice. I've been quite pleasantly surprised as to how much smaller the databases are going to be. The charts and photo gallery are the big ones at around 450MB between the two of them, but no big deal.
Once I have this migration done, I just need to copy over the testing center, applicant data and the events, and then all of the data migration routines wil be complete. As you can see on the DVA2006 progress site, we are getting more and more classes written and unit tested. I am busy working on the DAO package that does the interface with the database - once that's complete then we move down the application stack and start writing the actual glue and business logic that makes it all work.
Only then do we start work on the presentation layer - the part that all of you will see. As you can notice from my earlier post, I will NOT write spaghetti code. The business logic, data access and presentation are going to be seperate for a reason - so we can swap out databases, or change the UI or change the rules without unduly affecting stuff and breaking things in another place. I sketched out the type of JSP tag libraries I want to create; UI designers will be able to generate HTML elements dynamically without needing to know how to code; just how the tag libraries work.
One thing that you should all consider is the fact that my continued presence is not guaranteed. No one is guaranteed to be here 12, 18, 24 months from now. I am deliberately spending extra time writing JavaDocs and unit tests so that instead of handing off a complicated undocumented mess, whoever inherits DVA2006 will have a well-documented and easy to maintain system. Professional-quality.
On a final note, I have to see submissions for a UI that meet the criteria I have set, and the end of the month is approaching. I am more than happy to delay the deadline until I get to the point where I need to start writing the UI, but that date will come sooner rather than later. In the absence of something meeting our criteria, I am prepared to proceed forward with the current design - with one important distinction. The current layout will be reproduced entirely within CSS; making it simple for designers to modify the style sheet and images to apply any new design. I have a "proof of concept" version of the home page almost ready to go that is entirely HTML with no formatting information for you to use as a mockup.
I apologise for the delay in getting my other stuff out. I'm going to try and catch up soon.
Cheers!
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,241 legs, 8,967.3 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,899 legs,
7,760.4 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,277 legs, 9,102.2 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
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Posted onPost created on
January 25 2005 18:54 ET by Luke Kolin
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Here's the database size thus far. You can copy the text below into a CSV file and open in Excel:
TABLE NAME,TYPE,ROWLEN,ROWS,AVGSIZE,SIZE,IDXSIZE,AUTOINC
acars_pireps,InnoDB,Fixed,218,300,65536,0,NULL
airlines,InnoDB,Dynamic,14,1170,16384,0,NULL
airport_airline,InnoDB,Fixed,1739,47,81920,49152,NULL
airports,InnoDB,Dynamic,455,180,81920,32768,NULL
applicants,InnoDB,Dynamic,0,0,16384,65536,1
capt_eq,InnoDB,Dynamic,30538,52,1589248,1589248,NULL
charts,InnoDB,Dynamic,3366,75236,253247488,196608,3391
cooler_channelinfo,InnoDB,Dynamic,27,606,16384,0,NULL
cooler_channels,InnoDB,Dynamic,12,1365,16384,0,NULL
cooler_posts,InnoDB,Dynamic,36009,510,18399232,3178496,40471
cooler_threads,InnoDB,Dynamic,19268,136,2637824,1589248,20026
cooler_views,InnoDB,Fixed,0,0,16384,0,NULL
eqratings,InnoDB,Dynamic,139,117,16384,0,NULL
eqtypes,InnoDB,Dynamic,10,1638,16384,32768,NULL
examinfo,InnoDB,Dynamic,0,0,16384,16384,NULL
examquestions,InnoDB,Dynamic,0,0,16384,32768,NULL
exams,InnoDB,Dynamic,0,0,16384,32768,1
gallery,InnoDB,Dynamic,1455,96220,140001280,131072,3300
galleryscore,InnoDB,Fixed,703,93,65536,16384,NULL
help,InnoDB,Dynamic,0,0,16384,0,NULL
news,InnoDB,Dynamic,606,405,245760,32768,4637
pilots,InnoDB,Dynamic,2709,586,1589248,393216,10624
pireps,InnoDB,Dynamic,62081,160,9977856,10584064,66570
qe_info,InnoDB,Dynamic,0,0,16384,16384,NULL
questioninfo,InnoDB,Dynamic,0,0,16384,16384,1
ratings,InnoDB,Dynamic,27156,97,2637824,0,NULL
schedule,InnoDB,Dynamic,0,0,16384,65536,1
signatures,InnoDB,Dynamic,429,28146,12075008,0,NULL
staff,InnoDB,Dynamic,19,862,16384,0,NULL
tz,InnoDB,Dynamic,84,195,16384,0,NULL
Cheers!
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA1650
Captain, L-1011-100
Joined on April 24 2004
Century Club
"The O-N-L-Y Way to Fly!" Southeastern United States
103 legs, 174.7 hours
49 legs,
94.5 hours online 2 legs,
2.1 hours ACARS 2 legs,
3.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
January 26 2005 04:06 ET by Daniel Malneritch
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What is this "nsf" that we're using now? Is it something that you mace yourself? I like the forums the way they are now. I don't really care too much how they are, just make an edit button.
Daniel MalneritchCaptain, L-1011-100
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DVA953
Senior Captain, B737-800
E-MAIL
Joined on November 17 2002
50 State Club
Double Century Club
Online Double Century Club
"V1 means V1..." West Lafayette, IN USA
214 legs, 376.8 hours
211 legs,
373.0 hours online 117 legs,
223.6 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
January 28 2005 04:35 ET by James Brickell
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Lotus notes.
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