Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler | Airline Operations |
Codeshare and AirElite Flights |
DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,241 legs, 8,967.3 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,899 legs,
7,760.4 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,277 legs, 9,102.2 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
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Posted onPost created on
March 09 2004 16:42 ET by Luke Kolin
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Some pilots have asked questions about codeshare and AirElite flights, and I have promised some clarification on the matter. I spoke with Terry about it this evening, and here's what we came up with. This is a bit of my "stream of consciousness" ramblings, so if you have questions please ask.
Codeshares - Our original codeshare policy came down from Simon Larsson, the first CEO of Delta Virtual Airlines. His standing policy was that any flight on a partner airline was OK. The first PIREP in our database is me dragging an A320 from CDG to Heathrow. We need to reconcile this "pilot-friendly" policy with a recognition that our "core competency" is Delta. I don't want us to spread our wings too far - let's focus on Delta and make sure we do it right.
That being said, we have a special relationship with Air France. Between Delta and Air France, I would guess that every single commercial airliner made in the west since 1945 has been flown by one or both of these airlines. Air France allows us to fly a lot of aircraft we wouldn't ordinarily have access to (Airbus, 707, 747, Concorde). If you have a hankering to fly them, I'd rather you did so under DVA/AFV auspices than our competition.
You may recall that I had some reservations and reluctance to add the COA/NWA codeshares to our schedule and database. I still do. There is a good Virtual Continental on the web, and there's a virtual NWA that has a DVA pilot who I greatly respect on staff (so they can't be all bad). I don't want to get out of areas of core competency, and it's professional courtesy to those airlines. We're going to continue our support of codeshares, but with this in mind:
1. We will support all "true" codeshare flights. That means if the flight is listed under the DAL timetable as a Delta flight number but operated by another airline, we'll support it. If it involves an airport not in our database, I am committed to adding it.
2. We will support all Air France flights. AF is a "special" codeshare partner because of the uniquely complementary nature of their fleet and route structure. I will ensure that all AF equipment and destinations are in our databases. You can fly any Air France flight you want.
3. We do *NOT* support non-codeshare flights. If you're flying a codeshare flight to/from an airport not in the database, sorry.
AirElite - As much as the AirElite concept excites me, I don't want to stray too far from our core competencies. If you want to do an AirElite charter flight using existing DAL airports and existing DVA equipment types, that's just fine. However, we can't justify the expansion of our databases and services to support every airport in North America and beyond.
Remember, our primary goal is Delta. I encourage you to examine our codeshare equipment/fleet (especially AF) and feel free to have some fun from time to time with AirElite. However, we don't try to be all things to all people, and we recognise we cannot offer everything to everyone. Our goal is to offer a first-quality DAL experience to our pilots, and that's what our focus will continue to be.
Cheers!
Luke
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA1193
Senior Captain, B767-300
Joined on April 24 2003
Century Club
Online Century Club
Everett Century Club
Montréal, QC Canada
196 legs, 649.7 hours
195 legs,
648.2 hours online 75 legs,
240.7 hours ACARS 11 legs,
30.8 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
March 09 2004 18:27 ET by David Ferris
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Well said Luke, now everything regarding codeshare is clear to me. Are the codeshare flights listed in the schedule program from delta.com?
David FerrisSenior Captain, B767-300
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DVA1127
Captain, MD-11
Joined on March 03 2003
Online Century Club
Double Century Club
Long Beach Century Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
"Nail the speed, Live with the fpm." Western Canada
274 legs, 1,196.8 hours
114 legs,
634.7 hours online 45 legs,
184.7 hours ACARS 352 legs, 1,678.9 hours total
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Posted onPost created on
March 09 2004 18:52 ET by Dennis Bergen
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Well said Luke. Delta first, with the odd code share second for me.
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DVA1194
Senior Captain, MD-88
E-MAIL
Joined on April 18 2003
Century Club
Southeastern United States
112 legs, 349.3 hours
42 legs,
66.7 hours online 1 legs,
1.3 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
March 09 2004 18:56 ET by Matthew Sisson
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Let me get this straight about A.E., We can fly it from/to one of the Delta airports and get it PIREPED?
God Bless
<>< Matthew Sisson ><>
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DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,241 legs, 8,967.3 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,899 legs,
7,760.4 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,277 legs, 9,102.2 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
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Posted onPost created on
March 09 2004 19:18 ET by Luke Kolin
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>> Let me get this straight about A.E., We can fly it from/to one of the Delta airports and get it PIREPED?
Yes, within reason. If you want to fly the odd AirElite flight, go ahead. If it the volumes become more than the odd diversion we'll look into things again.
Cheers!
Luke
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA1390
Captain, B757-200
Joined on November 16 2003
Eastern Canada
75 legs, 131.1 hours
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Posted onPost created on
March 10 2004 05:10 ET by Mark Farber
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We should impose a limit (e.g. one code share flight for every 5 flights flown on DVA, or x number of codeshares per month).
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DVA613
Senior Captain, B727-200
OLP, VFRADV
Joined on June 17 2002
50 State Club
Events Century Club
Million Mile Club
US Coastal Club
US Mountaineer Club
Commuter Conquest
Globetrotter
Everett Millennium Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Online Twenty Century
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
"Beware of the Green Baron!" Charlotte, NC USA
2,417 legs, 3,904.2 hours
2,240 legs,
3,528.0 hours online 2,051 legs,
3,066.5 hours ACARS 130 legs,
238.7 hours event 165 legs dispatched, 103.9
hours
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Posted onPost created on
March 10 2004 07:18 ET by David Keech
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According to the Delta website, Avianca is a South American carrier that has a codeshare with Delta. They use the standard B762ER, B763Er, B752 and Fokker 50. Is there a way to codeshare then flights?
According to thier website they have routes going from the US to Columbia regularly as well as domestic destinations.
This would give those of us who recently discovered the joys of flying down south.
Just my .02 cents
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DVA1324
First Officer, B777-200
Joined on September 13 2003
Western Europe
17 legs, 115.8 hours
1 legs,
11.1 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
March 10 2004 13:54 ET by Karel Vanhees
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Hi luke and others,
With the A.E. option, are we allowed to fly corporate jets for air-elite?
They are in the AE fleet dbase but not in the DVA dbase off course...
regards,Karel
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DVA1129
Senior Captain, B757-200
E-MAIL
Joined on March 10 2003
Million Mile Club
Millennium Club
Online Six Century Club
""never ever give up"" Ardmore, OK USA
1,210 legs, 3,192.7 hours
602 legs,
1,222.0 hours online 508 legs,
1,054.6 hours ACARS 15 legs,
27.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
March 10 2004 14:17 ET by Craig Davidson
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I really think we need to keep NWA and COA as codeshare parteners and they should not be limited. thats is one of the MANY things i was starting to love about this VA the fact that i could be with one airline but yer still have some selectiong on what aircraft and airports i could flyinto but still have it count to my hours at one place.
and on the Air Elite issue, what if we just added one equipment type such as ''Corporate'' and if the pilot wanted to fly into an small airport it would just have to be by a large one in our database so that we would not have to add any airports. but i donno thats just my opinion yall do what you think is right.
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DVA822
Senior Captain, B777-200
Joined on September 05 2002
Quincentenary Club
Million Mile Club
"I love the smell of jet fuel" Northeastern United States
589 legs, 2,254.6 hours
47 legs,
112.9 hours online 97 legs,
400.7 hours ACARS 16 legs,
39.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
March 10 2004 16:19 ET by Trevor Fenimore
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I have to agree with Craig. I understand that Delta is our main airline, but recently with the addition of CO, and NW, we have been able to fly so many routes that we normally wouldn't. I do not think that this has led most of us to stop flying Delta flights, but rather given us more places to fly. I do not think that they should be limited, but I will support whatever is decided.
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DVA1194
Senior Captain, MD-88
E-MAIL
Joined on April 18 2003
Century Club
Southeastern United States
112 legs, 349.3 hours
42 legs,
66.7 hours online 1 legs,
1.3 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
March 10 2004 16:52 ET by Matthew Sisson
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I too like Craig's idea on the AE. What if we just added a plane called coperate that shouldn't be hard(not sure that's comming from somone w/ 0 prog. experience) or even have it to where on the company part have it say AirElite and the you click that and the a/p you can just type in any 4 digit combination since there are so many a/p. That shouldn't be too hard or to much of a hassle? comments..
God Bless
<>< Matthew Sisson ><>
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DVA497
Senior Captain, A330-300
Joined on June 02 2002
Online Century Club
50 State Club
Globetrotter
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Black Pearl Club
Everett 250 Club
Millennium Club
Million Mile Club
Hong Kong Island Hong Kong
1,125 legs, 2,807.5 hours
171 legs,
325.8 hours online 509 legs,
1,314.3 hours ACARS 7 legs,
13.5 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
March 11 2004 08:13 ET by Pablo Fraga
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>According to thier website they have routes going from the US to Columbia regularly as well as domestic destinations.
Colombia! :-P
Pablo FragaSenior Captain, A330-300
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DVA1324
First Officer, B777-200
Joined on September 13 2003
Western Europe
17 legs, 115.8 hours
1 legs,
11.1 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
March 11 2004 10:20 ET by Karel Vanhees
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You are right matt,
just a "corporate" aircraft and the total flight hours in the pirep should do it if that is possible!
I'am planning to do an Airelite flight next week to Tahiti
first and then to Malaysia in a cessna CitationX for bringing "really" rich people to the
next formula 1 event there!
You see,this is one of the great things that should be possible with Delta AirEliteVA division!
enjoy the picture from my next topic
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DVA860
Captain, DC-6
Joined on September 27 2002
Double Century Club
Southeastern United States
217 legs, 1,187.5 hours
33 legs,
191.9 hours online 9 legs,
34.3 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
March 11 2004 12:12 ET by Wayne Rose
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Well said Luke. I always thought that the only authorized codeshare flights that we could fly were located in the Delta timetable, outside of the 8000 series, that is.
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DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,241 legs, 8,967.3 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,899 legs,
7,760.4 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,277 legs, 9,102.2 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
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Posted onPost created on
March 11 2004 18:08 ET by Luke Kolin
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I am certainly sympathetic to your concerns and desires, and I don't want to step on anyone's fun and enjoyment of this hobby.
However, let me take a step back to a strategic viewpoint. Our goal is to provide a virtual airline that is first-rate in its representation of an airline - and that airline is Delta. In the past, we have attempted to branch out to create a "partner" airline - Delta Virtual Connection. The database still exists and the back-end code is littered with references to DVC in the LDAP schema. However, we ended up folding it back into DVA because unfortunately it detracted from our ability to create a first-rate DVA and all were better served with a single entity.
I have high standards for a virtual airline, and DVA is the embodiment of those standards. I consider it a basic condition of entry to have a high-quality fleet, operating manuals, an extensive airport database and an up-to-date schedule. Candidly, it strains my resources and efforts to provide that for Delta, and it's taken us almost three years to get where we are. The manuals themselves took over a year to complete, and even now they are not quite complete.
For us to branch into the Continental and Northwest arenas would have several negative consequences. First, they would take resources away from Delta and decrease the Delta experience for everyone. Second, the continuing exitstence of Delta would prevent those two airlines from ever reaching the standard of quality that I consider acceptable. Third, I have respect for Lance Williams and the folks at VCA and I think they produce a good product. We may be a few steps ahead of them, but we've had more time, too. If you want to get totally immersed in Continental, I think Lance can do a far better job of it than I. Finally, I don't want to create an "airline group" a la Simairline or Flying Tigers, at least not yet. Aviation Francais Virtuel is on my plate, but it's been delayed longer than my Green Card or a 2000 GWB campaign promise. I simply don't have the time or energy dedicated to supporting NW/Continental airports and routes.
AirElite brings in a different issue - it's a fundamentally different operation from Delta, sharing only common ownership. I'm not ready to make that leap yet, since it means creating a totally different structure. To graft it on to our PIREP database runs the risk of throwing our statistics off.
I'm not going to get anal on everybody and say "We do Delta and official codeshares ONLY." If you fly a Northwest or Continental route between two valid destinations in the PIREP database that isn't served by a real codeshare, we're not going to notice or care. If you want to do an AirElite charter using an existing piece of equipment, fine. If you do an AirElite charter in your new Citation X and want to chat about it in the Water Cooler, go right ahead. You have my blessing and encouragement. However, right now our goal is to take our level of support of Delta to a level that is unmatched among virtual airlines.
Down the road, I have no objections to expanding things. If I succeed in getting some time to build the AFV database, we can use that as a template for other ventures.
Cheers!
Luke
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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