Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler | Airline Operations |
A Little Known 727 Fact |
AFV011
Senior Captain, B777-300
Joined on September 19 2004
GVA 5 Year Anniversary
Online Two Fifty Club
Triple Century Club
Historic Triple Century Club
"Remember...140, 250, and REALLY FAST" Midwestern United States
394 legs, 606.7 hours
274 legs,
430.6 hours online 86 legs,
126.5 hours ACARS 8 legs,
16.0 hours event 501 legs, 763.5 hours total
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Posted onPost created on
October 05 2004 18:05 ET by Michael Carter
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Many older B727 Captains would pull the inboard flap CB to enable extending the trailing edge flaps to two degrees for high-altitude long-range cruise.
For those not familiar with the B727, the leading edge devices are synched with the trailing edge flaps to deploy the three inboard leading edge Kruger flaps at two degrees of trailing edge flap, and at five degrees of trailing edge flap the outboard slats would deploy. This was part safety feature and part simplification of procedures that Boeing built in to the B727, unlike the Hawker Trident, in that the leading edge devices could be deployed and retracted independantly of trailing-edge flaps. This caused several crashes of the Trident in the '60's from inadvertant or purposeful retraction of the leading edge devices before flying speed was attained.
Old-time Captains of the B727 found that by pulling the CB for the leading edge Kruger flaps, that they could extend 2 degrees of trailing edge flap thereby increasing the wing area and lift surface of the wing without deploying the leading edge Kruger flaps. At two degrees of flap, it is not changing the camber of the wing, but only increasing the wing surface, and therefore the area of lift.
This in turn netted a 3% fuel savings and a 7 knot average increase in airspeed at flight levels above 330.
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DVA1099
Senior Captain, L-1011-100
Joined on February 20 2003
Double Century Club
South America
277 legs, 1,092.6 hours
50 legs,
126.5 hours online 1 legs,
2.0 hours event 354 legs, 1,417.3 hours total
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Posted onPost created on
October 05 2004 18:37 ET by Ariel Griotti
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ha! very interesting Mike.. really, I love those "hidden" things behind the planes
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AFV011
Senior Captain, B777-300
Joined on September 19 2004
GVA 5 Year Anniversary
Online Two Fifty Club
Triple Century Club
Historic Triple Century Club
"Remember...140, 250, and REALLY FAST" Midwestern United States
394 legs, 606.7 hours
274 legs,
430.6 hours online 86 legs,
126.5 hours ACARS 8 legs,
16.0 hours event 501 legs, 763.5 hours total
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Posted onPost created on
October 05 2004 18:39 ET by Michael Carter
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Pretty cool, huh? Wish it would work on the sim model.
Those ol'-timers knew their stuff.
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DVA1008
Senior Captain, B757-200
Joined on December 14 2002
B757 100 Club
Everett 250 Club
50 State Club
Six Century Club
Online Six Century Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
"Fly 'till the map turns blue" Kokomo, IN
633 legs, 1,731.3 hours
613 legs,
1,689.9 hours online 212 legs,
792.3 hours ACARS 35 legs,
77.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
October 05 2004 18:44 ET by Matt Young
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That's interesting. Keep in mind though, with all the digitized equipment now and lack of complete control over everything (if that makes sense), pilots just don't have the option to do things like that anymore. If there weren't so many computer controlled things, I'm sure there would still be lots of little tricks like that.
Matt YoungSenior Captain, B757-200
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AFV011
Senior Captain, B777-300
Joined on September 19 2004
GVA 5 Year Anniversary
Online Two Fifty Club
Triple Century Club
Historic Triple Century Club
"Remember...140, 250, and REALLY FAST" Midwestern United States
394 legs, 606.7 hours
274 legs,
430.6 hours online 86 legs,
126.5 hours ACARS 8 legs,
16.0 hours event 501 legs, 763.5 hours total
|
Posted onPost created on
October 05 2004 18:49 ET by Michael Carter
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You are absolutely correct. This was not an authorized procedure, nor was it in the POH. Just something an ol'timer past along to his FO's over time.
If you tried that now in a modern aircraft everyone from Boeing to Atlanta would know about it as soon as you pulled the CB. Providing there was a CB to pull. Ha!
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DVA1008
Senior Captain, B757-200
Joined on December 14 2002
B757 100 Club
Everett 250 Club
50 State Club
Six Century Club
Online Six Century Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
"Fly 'till the map turns blue" Kokomo, IN
633 legs, 1,731.3 hours
613 legs,
1,689.9 hours online 212 legs,
792.3 hours ACARS 35 legs,
77.7 hours event
|
Posted onPost created on
October 05 2004 19:10 ET by Matt Young
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How true. If you look at our PA-23's panel (http://68.54.210.88/510dpanel.jpg), on the lower right you can barely see the first row of circuit breakers. There aren't any pneumatics or other big plane things to deal with and we still get two rows of breakers. Now, if I could just talk my dad into taking the CFI, CFII, and MEI courses.
Matt YoungSenior Captain, B757-200
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DVA237
Senior Captain, MD-11
Joined on January 18 2004
Century Club
Online Century Club
New York, NY USA
181 legs, 323.2 hours
177 legs,
318.5 hours online 34 legs,
65.9 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
October 05 2004 19:15 ET by Mike Sweeney
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an even less known fact ...
the very procedure mentioned rang a bell and although I couldn't remember precisely why, a little Google helped me recall how this old timers trick could have less desirable consequences.
lo and behold, it appears one crew may have forgotten to pull out the leading edge slat circuit breakers ... http://fromtheflightdeck.com/Reviews/727/TWA727/
best,
- Mike
Mike SweeneySenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA237
Senior Captain, MD-11
Joined on January 18 2004
Century Club
Online Century Club
New York, NY USA
181 legs, 323.2 hours
177 legs,
318.5 hours online 34 legs,
65.9 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
October 05 2004 19:29 ET by Mike Sweeney
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and despite the mysterious erasing of the CVR tape on the TWA flight, the NTSB report was fairly conclusive about what happened ...
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=37981&key=0#
doh!
Mike SweeneySenior Captain, MD-11
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AFV011
Senior Captain, B777-300
Joined on September 19 2004
GVA 5 Year Anniversary
Online Two Fifty Club
Triple Century Club
Historic Triple Century Club
"Remember...140, 250, and REALLY FAST" Midwestern United States
394 legs, 606.7 hours
274 legs,
430.6 hours online 86 legs,
126.5 hours ACARS 8 legs,
16.0 hours event 501 legs, 763.5 hours total
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Posted onPost created on
October 05 2004 19:35 ET by Michael Carter
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OH S$!+!.
That's not at all good. That goes to show what established procedures and checklists are good for.
Although I don't doubt the Old Timer's reasoning or actions, that could have deadly consequences without a written procedure.
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