Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler | Airline Operations |
Probs w/ Trans-Atlantic Routes and 767 |
DVA1904
Captain, CRJ-200
Joined on September 14 2004
Western United States
11 legs, 17.1 hours
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Posted onPost created on
October 03 2005 18:47 ET by Joshua Kropkof
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Hey, I've been trying to do a Flight from Logan to Rome for awhile, and the flightplan seems to get screwed up. First of all, I use the New York ARTCC trans-Atlantic Planner to get the flightplan. I'm trying to set it into FS2004, and I can't find some of the waypoints such as VIXUN and MALOT. Your navigation help link in the pilot center doesnt help much. Also, I think there is something wrong because even if i plot a direct GPS route from Logan to LIRF, the Navlog says my flight time en route is 26 hours and 54 minutes. That doesnt make sense. Then it says my estimated fuel consumption is like 4000 Ibs. which is really confusing. Please help its really frustrating.
My second problem is w/ the 767-400. For some reason, the weight and balance on that thing is really messed up. No matter how much weight i put in the aircraft, it always shows the center of gravity being at the very front of the plane, right on the nose, as if there is tons of weight in the back of the plane, which there isn't. Once i tried to take off in this plane, and i could reach cruising altitude, then as soon as i leveled off the speed dropped dramatically and i went into a violent, uncontrollable stall. Please help as soon as possible.
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DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,241 legs, 8,967.3 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,899 legs,
7,760.4 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,277 legs, 9,102.2 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
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Posted onPost created on
October 04 2005 01:36 ET by Luke Kolin
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I wouldn't trust the FS9 flight planner farther than I can throw it. I believe VIXUN and MALOT are in the navigation database, but not the NAT waypoints. I believe the 767 fleet installer can install a scenery package to add the NAT waypoints and airways.
Regarding the 764, the COG might be off, but otherwise the plane is flyable. What altitude were you attempting to cruise at, and how little fuel did you have? The 767 (all of them) are performance dogs, but I have managed to get the 763 from 500 feet to FL350 (out of IAD) with a trans-Atlantic fuel load. I managed to never climb below 1000 ft/min, never exceed 90% N1 and never go below 250 KIAS above 10000'. It can be done, with careful planning and weight management.
Cheers!
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA1698
First Officer, B757-200
Joined on May 25 2004
Miami, FL USA
29 legs, 46.4 hours
29 legs,
46.4 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
October 04 2005 14:15 ET by Marshall Lewis
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NAT routes not withstanding, I should think FS9 is 'relatively' old and that some of the newer navigation points might not be in the database (e.g. see newer KATL RNAV procedures). One of my favorite for non-US routes is: http://rfinder.asalink.net/free/?PHP
Might give that a try and see if the route you get is easier.
As for the 764, I used to have trouble toward the END of my climb as I was approaching cruise because I had not adjusted my rate of climb (~1500-2000 fpm) and at higher altitudes the air is thinner so I lost airspeed and began plummeting to the ground (a newbie mistake, I know:redface:) Is this similar to what you've been experiencing? Once I started slowing to ~500-750 above FL280 or so, it worked fine.
Of course, if you've got the pennies, buy the LDS767! You'll wonder what you did w/o it!
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DVA1427
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on December 14 2003
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
Tri-Jet Triumph
Globetrotter
Moose Club
US Capital Club
Everett 250 Club
Quincentenary Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
"Livin' in the Dog Pound!" Kannapolis, NC
558 legs, 1,984.3 hours
250 legs,
611.8 hours online 384 legs,
1,530.5 hours ACARS 38 legs,
82.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
October 04 2005 16:11 ET by Lewis Gregory
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Remember that for a trans-Atlantic flight, you're going to be step-climbing. With a heavy fuel load you'll probably be cruising no higher than FL310 to start, gradually stepping your way up to 330, 350, 370, and even 390 as you burn off fuel.
Don't just lock in a climb rate like 2000 fpm and expect the plane to hold it all the way up to even a low cruise altitude like FL310, if you're heavy. Try this: Once you clear 10,000 feet, drop the climb rate for a little bit and let the plane accelerate to about 300 knots. Then set the autothrottle and set the altitude hold to your first cruise altitude, with about a 2000 fpm climb. As the engines start to really strain, and/or the plane can no longer maintain 300 knots/M.74, lower your climb rate a couple hundred fpm. When you hit M.74, use that as your climbspeed (switch from IAS to Mach hold) and keep adjusting the climb rate to hold your speed with the engines near full power. Holding your forward speed is more important than a fixed climb rate, and it makes for a more efficient climb.
It is very bad to let yourself get too slow as you climb. Even though the 767 has a lot of power under your right hand, if your forward speed drops down too low, you may get in a situation where the angle of attack gets so high, you can't accelerate even in level flight. You'd have to stop climbing and actually dive to gain speed. So keep that forward speed up. This is even more important in thrust-limited planes like 727s.
BTW, on the LDS 767, when you select VNAV (vertical navigation, letting the computer control the climb profile), it basically pegs the throttle either at max climb thrust or max derated climb thrust #1 or #2, depending on what you select, and then selects the climb rate that allows it to hold cruise speed (around 300 knots or M.79-.80) in that climb. So the climb rate gradually decays as you climb higher, while the engine thrust and speed are held constant. It's a different way of thinking compared to the standard FS autopilot method, which holds climb rate and speed constant and lets the autopilot vary the engine thrust.
Lewis GregorySenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA2253
Senior Captain, DC-8-61
COMM
Joined on April 01 2005
Everett 250 Club
Online Century Club
Eight Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
"I'd rather be flying!" Church Hill, TN USA
862 legs, 1,344.5 hours
108 legs,
165.2 hours online 299 legs,
485.1 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
October 04 2005 16:35 ET by George Lewis
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I recently flew the LDS763 from EDDM-KATL and like Lewis said, I did a step-climb - if you elect to manually fly the flight levels up you can look on the FMC under VNAV and see what the max altitude is for the given moment.
Flight Sim 2004 doesn't have all the waypoints in it and neither does the FMC unless you go and update it yourself.
What I would like is a good link that you can punch in an intersection and it'll give you the coordinates so you can find it easier in flight sim flight planner or program the fix in the FMC easier.
on the NAT Tracks like 53/20N that they list, you simply type 5320N in the FMC and it'll go ok. I bought some north atlantic oceanic planning pads - a pack of 50 for $3.00 at sportys.com - nice investment - I laid out all the tracks available to me and picked the best one off of that...
dunno anything about the 764 though, sorry...
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DVA1320
Senior Captain, B777-200
COMM
Joined on August 29 2003
Online Six Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
Everett Millennium Club
Flying Colonel
Three Million Mile Club
Arlington, VA USA
1,752 legs, 7,042.0 hours
610 legs,
2,627.6 hours online 272 legs,
966.9 hours ACARS 5 legs,
12.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
October 05 2005 07:09 ET by Daniel Ward
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The big problem with using FS9 flight data is that it is quite old. Unfortunately MS did not give FS9 the ability to update it's NAV database (like all the nice addon packages do). Hence, all the airports, waypoints, etc..., are several years old. So you may, or may not, find the waypoints in FS9. Try programming in one of the newer KATL SID's into it. It will be worth the money (if you can do it) to buy something like FSNavigator or FSBuild so you can get the latest nav data updated as it becomes available. When you use FSNav or FSBuild, you can do your flight plan in those packages, then export it to FS. All you have to do then is to load that plan in FS (Flight Plan - Load). All the waypoints will be there (even if they were not in FS to begin with). FS must not load the waypoint itself by name, rather it loads Lat/Lon. The name is just a human readable reference. One of the above packages is really worth the money. Even with the addon aircraft with FMC's (or MCDU's in the PSS Airbus series), I still use FSNav, if only to serve as a moving map during the flight. I like to know when I am getting close to FIR boundary, or just whre I am visually during the flight.
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DVA2253
Senior Captain, DC-8-61
COMM
Joined on April 01 2005
Everett 250 Club
Online Century Club
Eight Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
"I'd rather be flying!" Church Hill, TN USA
862 legs, 1,344.5 hours
108 legs,
165.2 hours online 299 legs,
485.1 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
October 05 2005 10:03 ET by George Lewis
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Yes, I think a big improvement to the next flight planner would be the allowance of importing/updating the navaid database and also the ability to add your own with an editor or something. The ability to look up an intersection would also be helpful - just type in Vixun and have the planner take you there or add it to your flight plan, etc.
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DVA2698
First Officer, B777-200
Joined on November 25 2005
Century Club
Everett Century Club
Online Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
" Bad news. The fog's getting thicker.... " Flower Mound, TX
183 legs, 799.3 hours
124 legs,
434.4 hours online 178 legs,
777.4 hours ACARS 1 legs,
2.3 hours event 44 legs dispatched, 32.8
hours
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Posted onPost created on
November 30 2005 11:58 ET by Robert Redden
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What is the ny artcc nat planner website address?
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DVA2658
Captain, B767-300
Joined on November 01 2005
Sopron, Gyor-Moson-Sopron Hungary
61 legs, 256.4 hours
54 legs,
230.0 hours online 54 legs,
232.3 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
November 30 2005 15:08 ET by Robert Posch
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hi!
click on <a href="http://www.nyartcc.org/route_central/NAT/index.htm" rel="external">this</a> to get to the nyartcc nat planner site.
regards
RP
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DVA2658
Captain, B767-300
Joined on November 01 2005
Sopron, Gyor-Moson-Sopron Hungary
61 legs, 256.4 hours
54 legs,
230.0 hours online 54 legs,
232.3 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
November 30 2005 15:09 ET by Robert Posch
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sorry, the link doesn't seem to work, just copy and past the url.
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