Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler | Airline Operations |
Who are our "Real world" Pilots |
DVA2411
First Officer, B777-200
Joined on June 22 2005
Everett 250 Club
Eurocap Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Six Century Club
"Semper Volans" Clayton, NC
653 legs, 1,795.5 hours
92 legs,
203.6 hours online 581 legs,
1,640.8 hours ACARS 6 legs,
22.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
July 11 2006 22:30 ET by John Richardson
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Hi all! I just wanted to see if there are any real world pilots that I can get some advice from regarding flight schools for ATP...I've been looking at a few of the larger ones and would greatly appreciate any suggestions...Thanks in advance!
Jon Richardson
John RichardsonFirst Officer, B777-200
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DVA2524
Captain, B757-200
Joined on August 14 2005
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
"F.D.N.Y. New Yorks Bravest" Yonkers, NY USA
39 legs, 83.3 hours
39 legs,
83.3 hours online 24 legs,
52.5 hours ACARS 5 legs,
9.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
July 11 2006 22:55 ET by Manuel Rivera
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Highly Recommend this Shcool for the prices and packages they offer.
You can start with 0 experience and they can have you in American Airlines in less than 1 year 1/2. Check them out.
http://www.atpflightschool.com/
Hopefully they are near you.
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DVA1385
Captain, B767-300
E-MAIL
Joined on November 09 2003
Century Club
"www.flyaoamedia.com" Western United States
122 legs, 479.3 hours
72 legs,
282.0 hours online 36 legs,
162.1 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 11 2006 23:19 ET by Chris Palmer
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Much of what they say about getting you in the regionals is true. The part that is usually a little white lie is the time. A year and a half is pretty unrealistic and not much make it in during that time frame. Just a heads up! Go for the gold!
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DVA822
Senior Captain, B777-200
Joined on September 05 2002
Quincentenary Club
Million Mile Club
"I love the smell of jet fuel" Northeastern United States
589 legs, 2,254.6 hours
47 legs,
112.9 hours online 97 legs,
400.7 hours ACARS 16 legs,
39.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
July 11 2006 23:22 ET by Trevor Fenimore
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I don't know about that Manuel. I know pilots with 5,000+ hours who currently can't get a job with a major airline since none of them except for Continental are hiring. With that being said I have heard good things about ATP. They are reputable within the industry and will do their best to place you in a REGIONAL, but nothing close to AA.
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DVA2524
Captain, B757-200
Joined on August 14 2005
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
"F.D.N.Y. New Yorks Bravest" Yonkers, NY USA
39 legs, 83.3 hours
39 legs,
83.3 hours online 24 legs,
52.5 hours ACARS 5 legs,
9.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
July 11 2006 23:26 ET by Manuel Rivera
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If you have the money ,that is about 85,000 dollars and alot of free time, meaning everyday you will be flying and of course you are the ideal student who really wants to fly ,and you show serious interest. You can be the MAN, Otherwise like Chris said you will not make it in a year and a half.
And thats alot of money to pay back
When you are going to start working for a Regional Airline for nearly 30,000 dollars a year.
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DVA2524
Captain, B757-200
Joined on August 14 2005
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
"F.D.N.Y. New Yorks Bravest" Yonkers, NY USA
39 legs, 83.3 hours
39 legs,
83.3 hours online 24 legs,
52.5 hours ACARS 5 legs,
9.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
July 11 2006 23:52 ET by Manuel Rivera
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WOW Trevor .....5,000 + Hours and the right Attitude can land you a job in NASA flying the Space Shuttle.
Unless they have 4,975 Total time hours and 25 Multi-Engine hours , then maybe I could understand why they cant get a job.
But a pilot with that many hours that cant get a job and he/she is current with enough multi time, should be able to work just about anywhere. I dont know about the Pay , But he will at least have a job.
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DVA1385
Captain, B767-300
E-MAIL
Joined on November 09 2003
Century Club
"www.flyaoamedia.com" Western United States
122 legs, 479.3 hours
72 legs,
282.0 hours online 36 legs,
162.1 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 12 2006 00:05 ET by Chris Palmer
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My buddy went through ATP. He has around 700 hours, all his ratings, and he just got hired on Continental after 2 years from the start. Depends on how good of a pilot you are I guess... Many don't realize that in the end it is all about how much the airlines like you.
Skywest, as always, is also hiring.
Although I plan on flying corporate, I would like to go to ATP to finish everything up. I also plan on getting my Boeing ratings. In Denver I asked Cap'n Meryl from USAToday if I could see her license. You should have seen how many ratings! "A319/20, B727,B747,B757/67,B777".
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DVA2411
First Officer, B777-200
Joined on June 22 2005
Everett 250 Club
Eurocap Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Six Century Club
"Semper Volans" Clayton, NC
653 legs, 1,795.5 hours
92 legs,
203.6 hours online 581 legs,
1,640.8 hours ACARS 6 legs,
22.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
July 12 2006 00:45 ET by John Richardson
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Hello again all!
Thanks for the input! ATP Flight Schools was the one I spent most of today speaking with..Theyahave a school here in Las Vegas near my home. Cost for the full vert is $49,995....Includes everything except the checkrides. Only thing is you gotta complete it in 10 months, and I could probably do it since I work full time, my wife works full time, and we have no kids or anything...So.....My main concern at this point is how long would it be until I make the same amount of money s I do now in a new career field of Aviation...I'm also enrolled half-time at Embry-Riddle for Aeronautical Sciences with 24 credits to go, so that's another thing to pour money into..
John RichardsonFirst Officer, B777-200
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DVA1385
Captain, B767-300
E-MAIL
Joined on November 09 2003
Century Club
"www.flyaoamedia.com" Western United States
122 legs, 479.3 hours
72 legs,
282.0 hours online 36 legs,
162.1 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 12 2006 01:18 ET by Chris Palmer
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Shoot for you dreams man. Do that, and everything will just fall into place where it needs to be.
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DVA2783
Captain, MD-88
Joined on December 31 2005
Lilburn, GA USA
18 legs, 24.9 hours
18 legs,
24.9 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
July 12 2006 02:39 ET by Richard Gallaher
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I don't want to direct you away from a flying job but,
Do you really have time to fly 1200 hrs? For each real logged flight hour count 4 more for travel to the airport, planning, training, aircraft inspection, etc... Many years ago I purchased a 50 hr block of multi time while I was in a FAA radar school in Oklahoma. The class was a little over 6 weeks long and it was very hard to burn up that much time. Most of my flights ended up being late at night. Remember you will not be the only one renting or using the aircrafts for training.
Also, A word of caution on wanting to make big $$$,$$$.$$. Many of my friends and family asked me why I went to the FAA to work/fly and not the airlines. They pay so much more money, don't they?
NO
Not for many, many years! Unless you show up with 10,000 hrs and a type rating the airline needs.
Most pilots will not tell you this due to thier ego. You will not jump into the right or left seat of a jet with the training from most of these flight schools without paying serious extra $$$,$$$.$$. Even then, if you are not Millitary trained, which is where your senior review pilots will be from, you will find it hard to get in with an airline or move up if your lucky enough to get in at all.
If you train in a turbo prop, plan on turbo prop pay. That will be far less than $50,000.00 a year as a senior captain. You will start well under $30,000.00 if hired. I've never met anyone that has moved up from turbos to jets in an airline (without paying through the nose for the jet training and ratings) but I'm sure their is a few out there.
The schools that claim placement with American are not in jets. With most flight schools you are not even qualified to fly turbo props when you recieve your ATP. You can take an ATP flight test in a Cessna 172 or R22, odd type ratings but it is posible.
Don't get me wrong, all the pilots I've met that fly the turbo props for American love thier jobs. They just don't don't like the pay. If you want money go to law or medical school. It's never to late. If you want a fun job on the road seeing the world, be a pilot.
Most of the flight schools will count the flight time you will have to conduct as a flight instructor to bring down estamated cost of training.
If you really want this, think of costs well above $100,000.00 and several years of training. (And then more training, and more training, and more training) You will then be on the road continuously living out of a little bag that you drag behind you every where.
That said, remember you are at home now flying a sim. Your wife can yell at you from the other room and later that night you will be in the same bed I hope. Ever wonder why an airline pilot would drink and posibly loss his job? Most pilots on the road (and you will be on the road) are lonly and one thing leads to another (Most one night stands are found in the bars). Sadly in all my years of flying, I've met very few faithful pilots and/or faithful wives of pilots. Again I know they are out there, but I've not met one family that has not had problems with the husband or wife being on the road away from home on a continuous bases.
There is more to consider than just a job change. It will be a life change.
I've been there and back. I came home to an empty house many years ago because my ex-wife took up with someone else while I was off flying around the world. I'm much happier at home with my new wife now.
When I get the urge to travel, I can turn on the FS. And when the flight is over I sleep in my own bed.
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DVA1385
Captain, B767-300
E-MAIL
Joined on November 09 2003
Century Club
"www.flyaoamedia.com" Western United States
122 legs, 479.3 hours
72 legs,
282.0 hours online 36 legs,
162.1 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 12 2006 04:01 ET by Chris Palmer
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This suddenly turned in to a really sad story... Airline life is tough.
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DVA2783
Captain, MD-88
Joined on December 31 2005
Lilburn, GA USA
18 legs, 24.9 hours
18 legs,
24.9 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
July 12 2006 04:21 ET by Richard Gallaher
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That 1200 hrs was for Rotorcraft. You will need 1500 hrs for Airplanes. (See FAR Part 61.159)
Sorry, about the sad story of Airline/Pilot life. Some things just look so good from the outside and no one will warn about the ugly side of life as a pilot on the road.
I just thought you should know before you make a life changing move.
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DVA1385
Captain, B767-300
E-MAIL
Joined on November 09 2003
Century Club
"www.flyaoamedia.com" Western United States
122 legs, 479.3 hours
72 legs,
282.0 hours online 36 legs,
162.1 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 12 2006 05:53 ET by Chris Palmer
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I actually didn't plan on going into the airlines for this reason. As much as I love big jets, and would love to fly them, there is plenty of other flying type stuff. Like now, with my own FS type company, I could never be happier. I'm just not willing to risk family stability to fly for an airline. However, there are those that make it and end up happy.
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DVA3303
First Officer, CRJ-200
Joined on July 03 2006
"Me? Havin motto? Silly :o)" Eastern Europe
7 legs, 10.3 hours
7 legs,
10.3 hours online 6 legs,
9.1 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 12 2006 10:26 ET by Peter Fabian
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Those overnight staying and stuff differs from airline to airline and from type to type I think.
If I can remember well, for example, Sky Europe has only one flight with overnight stay, which is in KSC.
Anyway, I am thinking of another school - http://www.deltaconnectionacademy.com , because they have good-looking financing program, offer college programs and are owned by Delta (they say that means everything, I think it means much :o) ), what is really good, as they can use some of Deltas equpment (I think jet transition course is also done in Delta simulators) and guaranteed job interview. They also claim that partners airlines have some number of pilot hire pre year exclusively for DCA.
btw I also like the fact that those letters they sent me are signed with pen instead of printing already ith it :o)
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DVA1385
Captain, B767-300
E-MAIL
Joined on November 09 2003
Century Club
"www.flyaoamedia.com" Western United States
122 legs, 479.3 hours
72 legs,
282.0 hours online 36 legs,
162.1 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 12 2006 16:12 ET by Chris Palmer
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Be careful with DCA. They promise a lot and offer little. Many of the schools get you to the same place. It would be cool to hang around an actual Delta endorsed school.
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DVA1633
Senior Captain, L-1011-100
Joined on April 17 2004
Century Club
Den Haag, Zuid-Holland NL
163 legs, 437.6 hours
2 legs,
11.5 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
July 12 2006 17:35 ET by Sander Jordans
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one thing you might concider, if you have the money ofcourse, is to try your luck in europe. its a lot more expensive (here in the netherlands it's about 320.000 euro's) but you have the advantage of the healthy airline industry over here, and the fact that a lot of new hires actualy start out on the jets (thats no joke, the youngest A-320 captain flies for BA and is 26) with european airlines.
I do agree with Richard tough, know where your getting yourself into, my long life dream was to become a pilot but once I grew older the more I realized being a pilot is not as glamourous as it looks to be. virtual flying is one thing but once you have to do ATL-DFW about 7 times a day the fun is starting to wear of rather fast.
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DVA2832
Captain, DC-8-61
Joined on January 20 2006
Century Club
"And Leon's getting Laaaaaaaaarrrger!" Duncan, NC USA
139 legs, 211.8 hours
79 legs,
105.4 hours online 60 legs,
75.1 hours ACARS 5 legs,
6.9 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
July 12 2006 18:57 ET by Billy Janke
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I checked out D.C.A. (they fly you down at least ) It's a great school but there is some resentment in the industry as some pilots look at it as "buying your job"...... I don't really subscribe to this though since in reality that's pretty much what you have to do no matter what school you go to, but just be aware that politics are alive and well at the airlines.....
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DVA2370
Senior Captain, B737-800
OLP, COMM, VFRADV
Joined on May 26 2005
Online Triple Century Club
Commuter Conquest
Six Century Club
Stage 1 Prop Triple Century Club
50 State Club
US Coastal Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Flagler Beach, FL USA
675 legs, 726.8 hours
319 legs,
311.4 hours online 179 legs,
146.1 hours ACARS 1 legs,
1.6 hours event 0 legs dispatched, 4.0
hours
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Posted onPost created on
July 12 2006 18:59 ET by Scott Clarke
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Interesting posts. As one can see, all have different impressions and ideas on what an "airline pilot" career is/could be like. I fly out of KSFB, home of Delta Flight Academy, and hear all of the 'stories' from the students, the cost, the hours, the debt, etc...I would recommend continue 1st with the education at ERAU, 24 credits to go, do it....Then work your way up the food chain, the schools are great & expensive, but it is hours and seat time in type, mulit, instruments that count. Get your CFI/CFII if you can, atleast you can fly and get paid for it while in school, but finish college first. All of us old pilots are going to quit flying in the next 10 years(medical, physical or ??) so there maybe a few openings. Look for a company that you could fly right seat and also work for, corp aviation is not all that bad if you get with the right company. I had the same dreams from high school, but could not believe trying to live on nothing(now $18,000 to $21,000/year for 5 years) to build hours with a regional. Remember, you get to fly, but depending on where you are based, you have a travel day to and a travel day from, etc, etc and you get to pay for it. Stay in school, but start working on license and ratings now.....
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DVA3083
Captain, B757-200
Joined on February 14 2006
50 State Club
Quatercentenary Club
"Always striving for excellence!!" Augusta, GA
474 legs, 1,105.4 hours
67 legs,
193.8 hours online 274 legs,
509.8 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 12 2006 19:28 ET by Chuck Mcdowell
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Im a real world pilot, i have my commercial instrument with 759 hrs flying time. I fly for a air ambulance service called airmed. To get ATP rated you need a minimum of 1200 hrs. If you are considering a career you should contact emery riddle in Daytona Fla. It is a 4 year bachelors program with a degree in aeronautics, plus all of your ratings.It cost alot, but there is no such thing as a cheap education anymore.If you get the ratings on your own without the degree the best you can hope for is a regional prop run. I just recently contacted an airline and they were going to hire me as a regional pilot at $25 an hour (flying hours) I found out that ypu do alot of sitting around and lay overs. You are only allowed to fly 70 hours a month max. I was told that i could expect for the first year to average between 35 to 40 hours a month, my math says that the pay would SUCK.check out this web site and you will see what pilots are making, www.airlinepilotpay.com.hope that helps
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DVA2411
First Officer, B777-200
Joined on June 22 2005
Everett 250 Club
Eurocap Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Six Century Club
"Semper Volans" Clayton, NC
653 legs, 1,795.5 hours
92 legs,
203.6 hours online 581 legs,
1,640.8 hours ACARS 6 legs,
22.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
July 12 2006 23:57 ET by John Richardson
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I agree with you all on the pay- I'm 38 years old and making $85,000 as an IT Manager here in Vegas...I see ranges for some starting at $18.00/hr to $53.00 depending on time/cert/hrs etc... I will need to keep my day job during the initial training, and maybe look into flying charters out of Vegas...I'm also good friends with the 2 Corporaate pilots we have on staff, and was fortunate to fly twice for some projects in our Hawker 800- That was a blast! Its gonna be hard to give up the pay (Maybe my wife will get a promotion!). I'm still doing some research, but ATP flight schools is looking real good so far, and one of the centers is local here...
John RichardsonFirst Officer, B777-200
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DVA2481
Senior Captain, A320
E-MAIL
Joined on July 15 2005
Iditarod Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
US Capital Club
50 State Club
Online Quadruple Century Club
Toulouse 250 Club
Seven Century Club
Madrid Spain
711 legs, 1,381.9 hours
449 legs,
912.0 hours online 609 legs,
1,097.7 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 13 2006 00:56 ET by Jimmi Cranford
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I'm sorry about going off-topic a little, but does anyone know how ATC pay is?
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DVA3082
Captain, B737-800
Joined on February 23 2006
"At least im not an airbus" Northeastern United States
39 legs, 49.4 hours
38 legs,
48.8 hours online 24 legs,
31.9 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 13 2006 09:24 ET by Josh Culbert
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I dunno know about ATC pay, but all I know is that it looks like the growing thing for us avaition buffs to get into....I heard alot of them are retiring from the Reagan era and they are hiring like mad.
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DVA3083
Captain, B757-200
Joined on February 14 2006
50 State Club
Quatercentenary Club
"Always striving for excellence!!" Augusta, GA
474 legs, 1,105.4 hours
67 legs,
193.8 hours online 274 legs,
509.8 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 13 2006 09:40 ET by Chuck Mcdowell
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A GS1 with 1 year experence is around $15k and after 10 years goes to around $25k. A GS15 with one year experence starts at $85k and with 10 years is around $110K. This all depends on location.The levels are GS1 thru GS15.
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DVA2783
Captain, MD-88
Joined on December 31 2005
Lilburn, GA USA
18 legs, 24.9 hours
18 legs,
24.9 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
July 13 2006 14:36 ET by Richard Gallaher
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I have never met a GS1 or GS2 for that matter. A GS3 is a very low level secretary just out of high school, around 8.95 per hour. With even a little education you should start out as a GS7 and you will have to go to Oklahoma to the FAA Acad. If you know what you are doing in about 4 years you will be a GS13 with a base pay of around $85k. Note this is without over time. I knew many ATC's that had to take time off because (No GS employeee can be paid more than a U.S. Congressman $147k). You will be ordered to take a vacation. With all the other gov. benifits you are at the same compensation level as a 180k exec.
The higher pay is in the centers, level 5 twrs, and aproachs like ATL or MIA.
ATC work is not that stressful any more due to the automation. Some of the management is hard to work with because they are constantly trying to justify thier job by causing trouble. But all in all its not bad or hard work for the money. If you like to travel you can fly for free in the jump seats of the various airlines.
There is ES level above GS that is by apointment by the standing administration. You can drop back down to GS if you lose this position due to an administration change. Not many come back after the jump to ES.
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DVA2481
Senior Captain, A320
E-MAIL
Joined on July 15 2005
Iditarod Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
US Capital Club
50 State Club
Online Quadruple Century Club
Toulouse 250 Club
Seven Century Club
Madrid Spain
711 legs, 1,381.9 hours
449 legs,
912.0 hours online 609 legs,
1,097.7 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 14 2006 00:01 ET by Jimmi Cranford
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Pardon my ignorance, what does GS stand for?
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DVA2783
Captain, MD-88
Joined on December 31 2005
Lilburn, GA USA
18 legs, 24.9 hours
18 legs,
24.9 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
July 14 2006 02:23 ET by Richard Gallaher
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Goverment Service level 1 through 15. This is used by the FBI, IRS, DEA, and other Title 5 U.S.C. (United States Code) authorized jobs. The FAA was GS back in the early 90's. In 1996 the FAA changed to FS (Federal Service levels) to duck under the Congressional pay limits. At that time the FAA was removed frm Title 5 U.S.C. funding. This caused alot of legal problems for me. Just before the year 2000, the FAA changed to FG (Federal Grade levels). I still refer to them as GS levels because most other United States Government jobs are based on this type of pay scale.
NOTE- You do not have to be a U.S. Citzen to work for the U.S. Government. There are jobs with the FAA around the world. I spent the majarity of my government carreer out of the U.S.
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DVA2481
Senior Captain, A320
E-MAIL
Joined on July 15 2005
Iditarod Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
US Capital Club
50 State Club
Online Quadruple Century Club
Toulouse 250 Club
Seven Century Club
Madrid Spain
711 legs, 1,381.9 hours
449 legs,
912.0 hours online 609 legs,
1,097.7 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 14 2006 20:42 ET by Jimmi Cranford
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Thanks for the help Chuck and Richard.
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DVA1195
Senior Captain, L-1011-100
Joined on April 25 2003
Century Club
IN USA
136 legs, 145.5 hours
12 legs,
13.5 hours online 30 legs,
25.9 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 14 2006 20:57 ET by Jacob Perry
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1) "Guaranteed Interviews" are worthless, and one of the latest scams that several flight schools use, kind of like "No Credit Apps Refused" that car dealers advertise. It means just what is says, AN INTERVIEW, not a job. Just about anyone can get an interview with anyone, but it's just that. Are you really going to pay that kind of money for a freakin' interview?
2) "Owned by Delta" is almost as big of a scam. It means jack, and does nothing for you except get you an interview for an inflated price. See above.
3) NOBODY IS HIRING. Allow me to repeat that... NOBODY IS HIRING. Maybe Continental and XJET, but since XJET has flowthru, most of those mainline seats with Continental are already taken. Besides, do you have any idea how many 20,000 hr pilots are out there submitting resumes? Who's going to get the job, an ATP or DCA grad who paid $80,000 for their interview, or a veteran, laid-off 73 captain?
4) Just about every airport in North America has a local flight school. Many of them are even staffed by career CFI's, not wannabe jet jockey's using you as a stepping stone to their future career flying an RJ for Mesa for $18,000. The service and personal attention beats the license factories by a factor of 10, and you may actually learn to be a pilot, not study to pass your checkrides. Oh, and the price is usually about half what the pilot factories charge.
Listen... you do yourself a disservice by educating yourself via the glossy ads in Flying magazine. Talk to veterans in the industry, few with over 10 years experience will reccomend these pilot factories. Besides, take some time to smell the flowers. Flying itself is a joy, these holes beat the joy out of it. Take the long view, not the short one (ask people who plunked down $30,000 to buy 250 hours in the right seat of a b190 with Gulfstream. How many of them are being called in to interviews?)
Jacob PerrySenior Captain, L-1011-100
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DVA822
Senior Captain, B777-200
Joined on September 05 2002
Quincentenary Club
Million Mile Club
"I love the smell of jet fuel" Northeastern United States
589 legs, 2,254.6 hours
47 legs,
112.9 hours online 97 legs,
400.7 hours ACARS 16 legs,
39.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
July 14 2006 21:10 ET by Trevor Fenimore
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Thank you Jacob for speaking the truth! I was trying to get that message across, but according to some here, guys right out of ATP have been "hired" by CO... yeah right. I figured I would just give up rather than argue.
As for ATC it seems to be very rewarding. I worked at PHL Tower/TRACON for a month, and almost all the controllers are very happy working there. Some of the most senior controllers are making around $150,000/year. This all may change with the latest and greatest ATC contract.
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DVA2411
First Officer, B777-200
Joined on June 22 2005
Everett 250 Club
Eurocap Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Six Century Club
"Semper Volans" Clayton, NC
653 legs, 1,795.5 hours
92 legs,
203.6 hours online 581 legs,
1,640.8 hours ACARS 6 legs,
22.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
July 15 2006 21:28 ET by John Richardson
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Thanks for all the responses guys! Good news is that I passed my Class 1 flight physical, which wasn't as complicated as I was thinking...I should be able to start flight school in 2 weeks!
John RichardsonFirst Officer, B777-200
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DVA3083
Captain, B757-200
Joined on February 14 2006
50 State Club
Quatercentenary Club
"Always striving for excellence!!" Augusta, GA
474 legs, 1,105.4 hours
67 legs,
193.8 hours online 274 legs,
509.8 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 15 2006 21:35 ET by Chuck Mcdowell
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Flidht physicals have one great advantage.....you never have to study for them.The down side is the doctor, the rubber glove and the ky jelly.LOL
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DVA1385
Captain, B767-300
E-MAIL
Joined on November 09 2003
Century Club
"www.flyaoamedia.com" Western United States
122 legs, 479.3 hours
72 legs,
282.0 hours online 36 legs,
162.1 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 16 2006 07:44 ET by Chris Palmer
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One thing about a lot of conversations like this is that in the end it is up to you to go out and study what is going on. Everyone has their own personal experience and opinion, but that doesn't mean a whole lot. Go out, study, figure it out and just go with what your gut tells you. If you do that, you will be flying where you most love it. Perhaps not where all the money is, but you'll love what you're doing.
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DVA2783
Captain, MD-88
Joined on December 31 2005
Lilburn, GA USA
18 legs, 24.9 hours
18 legs,
24.9 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
July 16 2006 16:55 ET by Richard Gallaher
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A word of caution on flight physicals.
You do have to study for them and keep good notes of your life forever!
If you are going to fly for many years you should keep a copy of every thing you send to the FAA in Oklahoma. Even copies of the paper work your doctor sends. If the FAA or for that matter any other branch of the U.S. government ever gets mad at you for any reason, they have and will go over everything ever written or said about you to every agency. This includes information from your FAA medical information to federal Tax filings. If you read the medical form you signed it gives the FBI (any other government agency) the right to see and use anything you give them against you.
I have seen this done. You can go to jail for not informing them of a trip to the doctor. This does not happen all the time. It is like speeding down the highway keeping pace with everyone else. You mite be the one they pick to destroy.
Keep copies of every thing you send to the FAA.
Join the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Assoc. they have lots of info for the general pilot and also warn of this over looked danger. They even provide a traking service for your medical info. to make sure you don't screw up.
Once charged with making false statements you will not get a job washing airplanes.
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DVA3288
Captain, CRJ-200
E-MAIL
Joined on June 29 2006
Western United States
32 legs, 39.0 hours
20 legs,
21.5 hours online 27 legs,
30.1 hours ACARS 1 legs,
1.0 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
July 16 2006 18:48 ET by Cam Fulbright
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I dont know if i agree with you Richard. I know 6 families in which the father/husband is a pilot and they have kids and live happy lives. You shouldnt discourage people away from flying for the airlines. However, it is not necessary to spend 100,000 dollars at ATP or DCA, go to an FBO and get your ratings there. Now getting back to the airline industry. Yes there is a lot of pilots out there and many many airlines are not hiring. BUT you do not know what will happen in the future. These pilots who have 20,000+ hours will eventually have to retire - opening the door up for the next generation of pilots. The one thing about the airline industry is that you will be getting paid very bad for a while. Doesn't matter tho, because 15 years down the road, it is very possible that you will be flying something bigger, better, faster and be getting paid a lot better. And for these 15 years you will be doing what you love, and if you dont love it, then you should not be flying...you should be working at a desk or somewhere where you love what you are doing. Life is not about money. Wouldnt you rather be happy being a midclass family instead of being a rich person who cant see past one of his dollars that everyone hates? Anyways, all im saying to people is that if you wanna be an airline pilot or coporate or whatever, just be patient and dedicated and take your hard times in the butt and you will get to where you want to go. Enough said...now lets go have fun in the skies!
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DVA3119
Senior Captain, B757-200
Joined on May 08 2006
Online Century Club
Quatercentenary Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Everett 250 Club
"Stumbled out with the sun down there" Sioux Falls, SD USA
462 legs, 1,970.6 hours
157 legs,
339.2 hours online 417 legs,
1,848.3 hours ACARS 6 legs,
17.9 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
July 16 2006 20:13 ET by Justin Taylor
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Going way back up to Manuels comment, just curious as to which regional carrier starts you out as a first officer at 30,000/yr. If you got started at $30,000/year as a first officer I would be in preping for my ATP right now. The range I have been seeing is more like 15,000 to maybe 24,000/yr in just about any twin engine turboprop, and that is if you don't get furloughed right after getting hired. I looked through several small carriers and they just about all offer you a garuntee of 75hrs a mnth. Nothing more.
Just curious if anyone else has heard any different.
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DVA2253
Senior Captain, DC-8-61
COMM
Joined on April 01 2005
Everett 250 Club
Online Century Club
Eight Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
"I'd rather be flying!" Church Hill, TN USA
862 legs, 1,344.5 hours
108 legs,
165.2 hours online 299 legs,
485.1 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 16 2006 22:03 ET by George Lewis
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Jon,
We go way back... I wish you the best of luck in your endeavours regarding professional flying. I do think though, with just 24 credits left, you might as well finish that up.
Personally, I have found that I love teaching others the joy of flying in flight simulator, and I *never* thought I would ever enjoy a CFI ticket. Now I am contemplating when I get back in the cockpit for real again (soon, I hope) to work towards getting that certification so I can teach others in the real world.
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DVA1385
Captain, B767-300
E-MAIL
Joined on November 09 2003
Century Club
"www.flyaoamedia.com" Western United States
122 legs, 479.3 hours
72 legs,
282.0 hours online 36 legs,
162.1 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 17 2006 01:33 ET by Chris Palmer
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Yeah, I'm also wondering why everyone is so skeptical about the airline industry. It's really not as bas as everyone makes it out to be. P.S. SkyWest continues to hire pilots. Been going on for 3 years.
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DVA2783
Captain, MD-88
Joined on December 31 2005
Lilburn, GA USA
18 legs, 24.9 hours
18 legs,
24.9 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
July 17 2006 19:52 ET by Richard Gallaher
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FLYING IS FUN!
That is the only reason I went into the "industry".
When growing up, I would ask my mother to take me to the airport all the time just to watch the planes and helicopters take off and land. My oldest brother built an airplane in our basement and I made my first flight (in a glider) when I was 14. After high school, I did not have an all expence paid trip to a party school so I went into the military. While in the military I learned to fly fixed wing planes just for fun with one of the flying clubs. I had the Commander of the Norfolk Naval Air Sation as my flight instructor. At the time I was an E4 Cryptologic Tech. I asked to go to Airport Servielence Radar School just to make sure I would be stationed at an air station, because I loved being around aircraft and knew I could find somewhere to rent a plane on land.
I got stationed at the Naval Air Test Center after radar training and completed my Instrument and Comercial fixed wing training with the Chief Pilot for the Maryland State Police, again fun, not for a job. I joined the Civil Air Patrol and flew "Bay Patrol" every weekend during the summer. No pay, It was all just for fun and got to meet lots of interesting people. The owner of the flight school in Maryland flew CIA opperations around the world and always had a cool story about his adventures into odd places.
I loved flying so much I bought a computer just to play ATP and MS FS. I also bought a remote control helicopter to fly and decided if I could affoard that I could affoard the real thing. So I went and got my helicopter ratings. Again not for a job just for the fun of it. I then went and got multi and sea plane ratings. Just for the fun of it.
While flying my RC helicopter at one of the flying feilds I met the Chief Flight Instructor for F18s from the Naval Test Pilot School (at Pax River). I told him of my interests and asked if I could sit through his class and go up for a back seat ride. Of course this was not for a job, this was for fun! I had to ask the Director (Dr. Richards at the time) of the Test Pilot School for permission. I completed all the required flight physical training and testing and applied as a civilian engineer. I got accepted! This was not for money and wow it was fun.
After my military tour(s) the FAA asked me to work for them. I could have gone to the airlines and yes it would have been fun. I picked the job I thought would be "FUN" and it was fun. I like flying something different all the time. Even my Flight Sim takes for ever to load because of the thousands of aircraft I just can't bring myself to delete.
Yes, all of this training was many many thousands of dollars. I just did not spend my money going out and getting drunk and while chasing women all the time. My love was flying so that's what I did. Oddly women loved the fact that I could fly so I was better off spending money on flying. Women ended up chasing me bacause I could fly.
When I started training in a C150 it was $20 with an instructor. I can't find 150s used for training anymore where I live. The R22 was $85 per hr in Washington (Sadly the airport where I trained is closed). Now flight schools want over $250 per hour for an R22. My Bell 206 training was $500 per hour. I don't even know where you can rent one now. Flying is expensive now but relative to the times and pay of today not much has changed.
The begining of this chat was about picking a flight school that would get you into an "airline job". I see you love to fly or you would not be here. I don't want to talk you or anyone else out of going to the airlines.
Not meaning to offend anyone in the airline biz but the AirBus to me is just that (a Bus) and I did not want to live my life as a bus driver living half my life alone (if married) in hotels. I once lived with a woman that was with an airline while I was with the FAA and we traveled together everywhere. It was great because we were together all the time. She traveled with me to my job sites around the world on her airline pass and I flew with her on her overnights with my FAA pass.
I noted that the person starting this thread mentioned his loved one. This is the only reason I even started typing in this thread.
Flying is FUN!
Some guys/girls think having sex with two women/men at the same time is FUN!
Until thier wife/husband finds out about it.
I only put my two cents in to warn of the job selection hazards he may not have thought about.
Then again, these mite not be hazards, some women/men don't mind a threesomes.
I would have a knife in my back if my "FUN" was front seat to my wife.
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DVA3288
Captain, CRJ-200
E-MAIL
Joined on June 29 2006
Western United States
32 legs, 39.0 hours
20 legs,
21.5 hours online 27 legs,
30.1 hours ACARS 1 legs,
1.0 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
July 17 2006 20:35 ET by Cam Fulbright
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Thank you richard, that last post was very well put and there is some great respect to be paid to you for what you have told us. Sorry for bit**ing at you in the earlier posts, i just couldnt see things quite straight!
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DVA1628
Captain, B767-300
Joined on April 09 2004
Online Double Century Club
Triple Century Club
"The DL757 at BNA is once again gone" Gallatin, TN USA
307 legs, 575.5 hours
297 legs,
559.5 hours online 234 legs,
441.8 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 18 2006 19:21 ET by Glen Novitsky
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I have a PPL, and probably will leave it at that.
Let me tell you my experience with Pilots that are starting at the bottom of the ladder and moving up. Most of them I know, work for places that fly canceled checks and blood samples. These are companies that have the ATP minimums of 1200+ hours before being able to submit an application. These pilots are all young, most freshly out of the glossy ad's you see in AOPA and flying magazines. You think at this point, cool...
Well, here is the real story.
Parked out front of the hangar, where the Pilots park their cars, you see license plates from as far north as Vermont, and as far south as Florida. Yes. They live here. They live here, all bunked together in a couple of small rooms behind the matainence shop. They start out flying C210's, and after that time they graduate to B58's. Starting pay? $7.35 and hour. Yes. Oh, starting routes are about 5 hours a day, total. So they make just over $35 a day. You heard me right, $35 a DAY, BEFORE TAXES. Most of the flights are night flights, starting in the afternoon and going to about 2 to 4 am. Those pilots that have been here longer do have longer days and better pay, but only around $12-$15/hour, but they still live at the airport. They also must be able to move anywhere in the Companies system at any time. Making $35 a day and living in an aircraft hangar after spending about $75-100K is a serious thing to consider.
Now, while housing is provided, the pilots don't have much when it comes to expenses, and their flight time while building expenses is paid for, you better be ready to live that kind of life. I for one, would dread it. A single, 20-ish guy or girl might find it great.
All of the pilots I have met at this company are great. They are really nice, and professional. But I just can't see myself doing that life...
I'm just putting out what's out there in real life.....
Glen NovitskyCaptain, B767-300
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DVA2411
First Officer, B777-200
Joined on June 22 2005
Everett 250 Club
Eurocap Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Six Century Club
"Semper Volans" Clayton, NC
653 legs, 1,795.5 hours
92 legs,
203.6 hours online 581 legs,
1,640.8 hours ACARS 6 legs,
22.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
July 18 2006 21:41 ET by John Richardson
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Hiya George!
Funny you should mention us going way back- I got a photo to scan and send you that is you and I in that Cessna flying along North Myrtle Beach!!! hahaha!
John RichardsonFirst Officer, B777-200
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DVA2411
First Officer, B777-200
Joined on June 22 2005
Everett 250 Club
Eurocap Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Six Century Club
"Semper Volans" Clayton, NC
653 legs, 1,795.5 hours
92 legs,
203.6 hours online 581 legs,
1,640.8 hours ACARS 6 legs,
22.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
July 18 2006 21:49 ET by John Richardson
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I've been doing quite a bit of research on the industry, and this is what I gather so far-
The big airlines such as Delta, United,etc...are selling a majority of thier shorter routes to the small airlines such as all the express lines, Mesa, US Airways, etc... The smaller shuttle airlines, fractionals, and corporates are hiring fairly often. Take a look at pilotjobs.com- There are a lot of salary listings there for various positions based on number of hours and years, as well as equipment types. Corporate aviation requires quite a lot of hours however. But Mesa, if you want to start in a B1900 or other turboprops, will start you out at around $18.00 and hour...They're supposedly the least paying company out there from what I hear. Also, I think you can only fly 70 hours per month, so you're not getting a full 2080 hours per year...Let me know if i'm off on the hours thing...
John RichardsonFirst Officer, B777-200
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DVA2411
First Officer, B777-200
Joined on June 22 2005
Everett 250 Club
Eurocap Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Six Century Club
"Semper Volans" Clayton, NC
653 legs, 1,795.5 hours
92 legs,
203.6 hours online 581 legs,
1,640.8 hours ACARS 6 legs,
22.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
July 18 2006 21:51 ET by John Richardson
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Also George, you would be a GREAT instructor! You should get your CFI and get some hours going again! You could apply all that real world knowledge to the virtual training here!
John RichardsonFirst Officer, B777-200
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DVA1195
Senior Captain, L-1011-100
Joined on April 25 2003
Century Club
IN USA
136 legs, 145.5 hours
12 legs,
13.5 hours online 30 legs,
25.9 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 19 2006 21:07 ET by Jacob Perry
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One important thing to point out is that unless you show up with 250 hours of b190 time out of 500tt, nobody will ever ask you in an interview where you earned your ratings. There isn't a place for it on a pilot resume, and it doesn't matter to anyone.
Something else to point out is that there are literally thousands of pilots out on the streets right now submitting resumes for every crap, low paying job availible. I was talking to a friend last week who is in the front office of one the the largest regionals out there, and he showed me a stack of resumes he had on his desk. You'd be stunned seeing the number of 25,000 hour 747 captains, military test pilots, chief pilots from other airlines who were applying for jobs at his regional, ones paying $25,000 or so as an FO (thanks to the absurd union structure that forces these pilots to start on the bottom).
Contrary to what the glossy ads say, or what Delta Connection Academy, PanAm or other scam shops out there will tell you, there is little hiring right now. Perhaps flying traffic watch, towing banners, flying pipleline inspections, towing gliders, or other more entry-level jobs. NetJets or any other fractional has simillar hiring minimums as most airlines, they won't even take a resume from a scam shop grad.
It's really important to have a reality check before writing someone an $80,000 check.
Jacob PerrySenior Captain, L-1011-100
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DVA3356
Captain, B727-200
Joined on July 15 2006
Poynton, Cheshire GB
38 legs, 80.6 hours
7 legs,
19.3 hours online 27 legs,
63.1 hours ACARS 2 legs,
9.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
July 20 2006 09:31 ET by Andrew Melia
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Wow! What a series of posts! Some for, some against, some sad, some joyful! Like Richard, ever since I could walk all I was interested in was aeroplanes and flying. Aside of motorcyling, its the only non-human thing I can find any enthusiasm and passion for. All my adult life all I wanted to do was be around planes and plane-people...I did a brief stint as a navigator in the RAF - but apart from that, even though I did quite frequently dream of a job in real aviation, for one reason or another, it never happened. Anyway, now, I'm 45 years old. My eldest daughter enrolls at Liverpool University this autumn to study Aerospace Engineering, and she hopes to join the University Air Squadron too, and plans for a career in aviation, Why?. Not money. Not staus. Passion. Passion for flying, the science of flying, the math, the physics, the electronics, the weather, the smell of AVgas, the sound of a Rolls-Royce dart spooling up, the beauty of Concorde on finals, the ear spliting roar of a vulcan bomber lifting out, the sight of a Netherlands airforce jet jockey rolling (yes, rolling) an F27, the admiration and wonder as in (how the hell did he do that?) when you first see and SU-37 perform that snake-bite manouvre.... Thats the passion. We all have it, real world or otherwise, thats why we're here. I am proud of my passion, and proud to be among others who share that passion. To the guy who started this thread.. Go out there and do it Son! To hell with the money and the job prospects (or lack of 'em), You want to fly? Go fly!
Andrew MeliaCaptain, B727-200
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DVA2411
First Officer, B777-200
Joined on June 22 2005
Everett 250 Club
Eurocap Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Six Century Club
"Semper Volans" Clayton, NC
653 legs, 1,795.5 hours
92 legs,
203.6 hours online 581 legs,
1,640.8 hours ACARS 6 legs,
22.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
July 21 2006 21:00 ET by John Richardson
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Thanks for the input Andrew! This has to be my most responded-to post ever! I too have a serious addiction to ANYTHING aviation related- I did a tour in the Army national Guard as an avionics troop, then went full time Air Force, asking foy anything to to with aircraft and the flightline...Since then, its been a lot of simming, PPL, school at Embry Riddle, RC planes, airshows, etc... I used to go to the local FBO just to watch takeoffs and landings for hours! Now that I have the chance and the time to pursue a serious career change into aviation, whatever it may be, I am excited to be able to share it and discuss with all of you who share the same passion for flying that I do.
BTW- I start my flight school in 3 weeks!
Jon Richardson
"Vegasjon"
John RichardsonFirst Officer, B777-200
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DVA1184
Captain, B757-200
Joined on April 20 2003
Southeastern United States
20 legs, 68.1 hours
15 legs,
47.2 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
July 21 2006 21:33 ET by Kevin Rosato
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Jacob good to see you back here! Are you still flying?
Back to the post. Most regionals start you out at around 19-21 bucks an hour, flight hour, that is. They have what is called a guarantee of around 75 hours. That means that regardless of how little you fly, you will be paid 75 hours worth of credit. Basic math of 20*75*12 shows a base pay of $18000 your first year. If you fly over 75 hours you get paid the over time. Most pilots will get credited over 80 hours a month while flying for a regional. You also get a per diem while on trips however you can't really consider that income. Per diem might bring an extra $7000 a year if you are away for 400 hours a month at a rate of $1.50 an hour (standard fare for a commuter guy). So it's reasonable to say that including per diem you can make over $25000 your first year at a regional.
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DVA3083
Captain, B757-200
Joined on February 14 2006
50 State Club
Quatercentenary Club
"Always striving for excellence!!" Augusta, GA
474 legs, 1,105.4 hours
67 legs,
193.8 hours online 274 legs,
509.8 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 21 2006 21:34 ET by Chuck Mcdowell
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Check www.airlinepilotpay.com
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DVA2411
First Officer, B777-200
Joined on June 22 2005
Everett 250 Club
Eurocap Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Six Century Club
"Semper Volans" Clayton, NC
653 legs, 1,795.5 hours
92 legs,
203.6 hours online 581 legs,
1,640.8 hours ACARS 6 legs,
22.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
July 21 2006 23:15 ET by John Richardson
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hmmm...18K a year would be a serious drop from the current 85K.....Is there such a thing as a part-time position, perhaps at a charter or something like that I wonder? I would also look forward to an instructor position on weekends to build up my hours as needed I guess....Its sad to see that I hire brand-new 19 year old PC techs and network engineers with virtually no formal training other than some video games they run on PC's for 35 a year, and pilots who invest in some serious training and risk are flying for that....Talk about backwards economies of scale! I'm not really in it for the money, I just love flying and everything related to it- The navigation, the science and physics, etc... Its too bad that for some it just becomes another mundane job...
John RichardsonFirst Officer, B777-200
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DVA2253
Senior Captain, DC-8-61
COMM
Joined on April 01 2005
Everett 250 Club
Online Century Club
Eight Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
"I'd rather be flying!" Church Hill, TN USA
862 legs, 1,344.5 hours
108 legs,
165.2 hours online 299 legs,
485.1 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 21 2006 23:26 ET by George Lewis
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Jon - yeah, email me the picture!
What I have personally considered is getting my IFR, commercial, multi and CFI and do some flight instruction and some weekend/night jobs just to be flying and getting paid for it (part time) while keeping my day job.
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DVA1184
Captain, B757-200
Joined on April 20 2003
Southeastern United States
20 legs, 68.1 hours
15 legs,
47.2 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
July 21 2006 23:28 ET by Kevin Rosato
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John, I agree with you 100%. The problem is that their is a surplus of pilots on the market that are willing to work for those peanut wages. I admit, I was one of them years ago! I know that I only needed to spend 4-5 years flying for a regional before I would get hired by a major. Though I was extremely fortunate, I am concerned for those who are just starting out now; they will have to realise that they may end up flying for SkyWest or another regional carrier for the duration of their career. There is nothing wrong with that,however, that wasn't my goal when I started in this business, and I doubt it is for most people too. My best advice is to join the military... Serve your commited time (around 10 years) then you will go right to a major and be making a decent wage. Stay in the reserves until retirement age to receive military retirement bene's as well as a decent pension. I don't think its a mundane job. I couldn't work for an airline that had me constantly flying roundtrips to DFW all day either, but there are enough airlines out there that allow you to do diffent types of flying. Stick with it; it's still an amazing job and makes for a wonderful career if you have the heart, the mind and the attitude!
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DVA1178
Captain, B737-800
Joined on April 13 2003
Midwestern United States
69 legs, 127.6 hours
5 legs,
9.3 hours online 11 legs,
26.7 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 23 2006 09:29 ET by Ralph Scharpf
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I have to say this thread frightens me because how can we be paying our pilots less than someone at Walmart pushing carts?
Please tell me that this is not a reflection of the quality of pilots as I am a nervous flyer to begin with lol.
Jeff
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DVA1195
Senior Captain, L-1011-100
Joined on April 25 2003
Century Club
IN USA
136 legs, 145.5 hours
12 legs,
13.5 hours online 30 legs,
25.9 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 23 2006 17:55 ET by Jacob Perry
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Jeff, let's not get carried away here. I don't know anyone who flies for an actual airline (including Great Lakes or Mesa) who makes what an entry level Wal-Mart employee makes. The wages that are discussed here in this thread are for entry level positions, which pay on par what other entry-level type positions pay.
Heck, upon upgrading, even regional guys are in the $40's and even $50's (albeit after a few years in the left seat). The concern that I and others have is the student loan payments due on an $18,000 salary, and the fact that the near future in this industry is somewhat bleak, at least for the next 6-8 years until the market does it's work and finishes this correction we're in.
It's also not always a wise decision to get suckered in by glossy ads promising guaranteed interviews and ownership by a major airlines, let alone paying a frighting amount for such useless features.
Jacob PerrySenior Captain, L-1011-100
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DVA1178
Captain, B737-800
Joined on April 13 2003
Midwestern United States
69 legs, 127.6 hours
5 legs,
9.3 hours online 11 legs,
26.7 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 23 2006 20:23 ET by Ralph Scharpf
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Jacob,
I understand your point. In no way did I mean to insult or insinuate anything. I was, making a rather "bad" joke I guess.. But in my opinion, pilots should be making alot more than what you say they do, even if they are "rookies"..
I guess it's my frustration with the way things are here..
For years too many low skilled workers made too much money and the skilled trades were under rated and underpaid.
I remember working as an auto mechanic as a young man, the pay then was terrible. I had to buy my own tools, pay for my own training to keep up to date, etc.. while my friends who worked on an assembly line brain dead job made MUCH more than me.. I'm sorry I wasn't envious.. just that well it didn't seem right.
I blame unions for that.. God I hope I don't start anything by stating that lol..
In my opinion, for example teachers are underpaid..athletes are WAYYY overpaid.. and our values are messed up...
I better stop
Sorry for changing this thread subject I apologize.
Jeff
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DVA3288
Captain, CRJ-200
E-MAIL
Joined on June 29 2006
Western United States
32 legs, 39.0 hours
20 legs,
21.5 hours online 27 legs,
30.1 hours ACARS 1 legs,
1.0 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
July 23 2006 23:08 ET by Cam Fulbright
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its fine jeff, we all know where your coming from and you are right. I couldnt agree more about the pay.
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DVA2315
Senior Captain, MD-88
Joined on April 30 2005
Long Beach 250 Club
Six Century Club
Online Quintuple Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
"www.harborcounty.net" Cypress, TX USA
674 legs, 1,380.9 hours
506 legs,
907.6 hours online 495 legs,
1,029.0 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 28 2006 12:11 ET by Daniel Shaw
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Time for me to insert the shameless ERAU plug.... As far as pay scales go, yes us pilots start off low. Actually, we have alot of flight instructors here at ERAU who don't want to leave because they are flying more hours and making more money here than the regionals can guarantee them in a month. But, it is important to notice that pilot pay scales rise almost exponetially. I mean after the first year with ASA you get like an $8 an hour raise. (I haven't looked in a few months) But as far as hiring goes, ASA has a program with ERAU where if you graduate with a BSAS (Bachelor of Science in Aeronautical Science) degree, and you have completed the CRJ Training course that ERAU offers, ASA will hire you with half their required minimums. This is great for ERAU students, and over the past 4 months, ASA has been hiring over 60 of our flight instructors each month. People like to bash ERAU and say that it's too over priced and no one cares where you get your degree from. Well, I see numbers like how ASA hires us and that tells me I'm getting my moneys worth. Also having started flying off campus when I was around 13, and having flown off campus here several times to get rental checkouts at off campus FBO's and having friends who go to competeing school such as Delta Connection Academy, I can say without a doubt that the quality and intensity of the training we receive here at ERAU is second to none. And US News and World Report I think it was, ranked us number one again this year. The Air Force Academy was second, and ERAU Prescott Campus was third. Also, my mom went to high school with Jack Pelton and so I recently was introduced to him and he helped me out with a research project I had to do on his company. He's told me several times that he would rather hire a B student from ERAU than an A student from anywhere else because of the quality of the training and the Universities reputation in the industry. For those of you who don't know, Jack Pelton is the CEO of Cessna. One of the other great opportunities that ERAU afford its students is netowrking. I have had the opportunity to meet many interesting indiciduals, both current and past airline employees, managers, pilots so on and so forth, including Captain Al Haynes, the Untied 232 pilot, and I've also been able to network with a current American Airlines Senior Check Airman.
So again, people will say that ERAU is overpriced, and not worth it, and that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Every flight school has it's advantages and disadvantages, but so far in my experience in the industry, I would rather be no place but here.
Daniel ShawSenior Captain, MD-88
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DVA3288
Captain, CRJ-200
E-MAIL
Joined on June 29 2006
Western United States
32 legs, 39.0 hours
20 legs,
21.5 hours online 27 legs,
30.1 hours ACARS 1 legs,
1.0 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
July 28 2006 18:45 ET by Cam Fulbright
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daniel youve got mail!
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DVA2411
First Officer, B777-200
Joined on June 22 2005
Everett 250 Club
Eurocap Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Six Century Club
"Semper Volans" Clayton, NC
653 legs, 1,795.5 hours
92 legs,
203.6 hours online 581 legs,
1,640.8 hours ACARS 6 legs,
22.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
July 28 2006 23:36 ET by John Richardson
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Hey Daniel!
Thanks for the plug! I'm attending half-time at ERAU and so far I feel I'm getting my $$$ worth- The instrcutors are very organized, knowegable, and professional. Its costing around $194 per credit hour plus books, so its not too bad..Still cheaper than Univ. of Phoenix!
ATP is gonna run me $44995 for the whole package, so thats a bit of a killer there as well...
John RichardsonFirst Officer, B777-200
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DVA2999
Captain, B737-800
Joined on March 19 2006
Double Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
Everett Century Club
"don't know you bets ta ask somebody" Stone Mountain, GA USA
230 legs, 444.0 hours
161 legs,
312.4 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
July 31 2006 23:42 ET by Matthew Brown
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sorry to but in but there is the Delta Connection Academy and you get priority on getting a job with ASA, Skywest, Comair, American Eagle, Delta, Chataqua, and some others. PS I am not an actual real world pilot just an FS pilot that does alot of reserch
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DVA2315
Senior Captain, MD-88
Joined on April 30 2005
Long Beach 250 Club
Six Century Club
Online Quintuple Century Club
DVA Ten-Year Anniversary
"www.harborcounty.net" Cypress, TX USA
674 legs, 1,380.9 hours
506 legs,
907.6 hours online 495 legs,
1,029.0 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
August 02 2006 01:29 ET by Daniel Shaw
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To keep flamming to a minimum, just speaking as an actual pilot who currently works for Delta (Not a Pilot for Delta, but I do interact wiht the pilots every day) the Delta Connection Academy is not all that it seems.
Daniel ShawSenior Captain, MD-88
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DVA2662
First Officer, L-1011-100
Joined on November 02 2005
Double Century Club
Online Double Century Club
"Forever Flying" Goose Creek, SC USA
254 legs, 298.8 hours
237 legs,
273.8 hours online 240 legs,
279.8 hours ACARS 2 legs,
3.8 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
August 04 2006 22:15 ET by Brent Lawhon
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As I am looking thru all of the post, the one option that hasn't been mentioned is allowing "Uncle Sam" pay your for flight training(for you guys not in the U.S., sorry, thats joining the military and flying for them).
Last I looked the U.S. Airforce flys some pretty big jets. When you come out of the military, you would have quite a few hours in mulit-engine jets or what ever. Does the airlines not count those hours anymore??
Just wondering. I'm not in the market for a flying job (gave that dream up many years ago), so I don't know.
Don't hit me for asking a dumb question. :-)
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DVA822
Senior Captain, B777-200
Joined on September 05 2002
Quincentenary Club
Million Mile Club
"I love the smell of jet fuel" Northeastern United States
589 legs, 2,254.6 hours
47 legs,
112.9 hours online 97 legs,
400.7 hours ACARS 16 legs,
39.2 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
August 05 2006 07:56 ET by Trevor Fenimore
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Hey Kevin its good to hear from you again! How are things going at World?
"ASA will hire you with half their required minimums" you mean ASA will interview you and then if you do well in the interview they will hire with half their required minimums.
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DVA2018
Chief Pilot, ERJ-170
OLP, 737-ATP
Joined on November 23 2004
B757 100 Club
50 State Club
Globetrotter
DVA Fleet Master
US Mountaineer Club
US Coastal Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Everett Tri-Millennium Club
Eight Millennium Club
Ten Million Miles and Beyond
Online Thirty Century
Ralston, NE
11,333 legs, 26,371.4 hours
3,951 legs,
7,571.5 hours online 10,098 legs,
21,785.3 hours ACARS 4 legs,
10.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
August 24 2006 04:19 ET by Matthew Whitaker
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Brent,
One thing I have noticed with the guys here at Charleston flying the C-17s is that they are inadequately trained for flying airliners. I have a friend who just got out as a Captain to try with the airlines, and he was asking me about FS because he needed to learn how to fly all over again. With the -17, its all computer driven, no flying needed other than pressing a button. He has over 2,000 hours in a multi engine heavy and he had to use FS to learn basic procedures again. Kinda scary thinking about that when I see these planes going over my house at 1,000 feet everyday.
I would reccomend the military though as a good option though. One, they will pay for your flgiht training, you'll get your hours, and you'll have a leg up over others as far as hiring goes. Eventhough nowadays i don't think it means as much. The golden days of aviation are over. I think once the last senior captains retire here in the next few years, that will be the end of the 150,000 a year pay for airline pilots. But as far as flying, get your hours in the military, then go corporate. More money and better quality of life in the corporate world as opposed to being on the line with an airline.
Matthew WhitakerChief Pilot, ERJ-170
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