Delta Virtual Airlines Water Cooler | Airline Operations |
MD-88/90 |
DVA3293
Captain, MD-88
Joined on July 01 2006
MA USA
34 legs, 38.9 hours
22 legs,
25.4 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
October 22 2006 17:16 ET by David Jacuk
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When do you guys think Delta will retire the MD-88/90's? They are getting old.
David JacukCaptain, MD-88
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DVA2728
Captain, MD-11
E-MAIL
Joined on December 04 2005
Triple Century Club
Online Triple Century Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Tri-Jet Double Centruy CLub
Million Mile Club
"Exceeding the standard." March Air Reserve Base, CA
343 legs, 2,038.9 hours
317 legs,
1,833.0 hours online 292 legs,
1,778.6 hours ACARS 6 legs,
27.9 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
October 22 2006 18:32 ET by Shane Olguin
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MD-88s are already on the chopping block. The MD-90s I think will be serving faithfully for a few more years in the west. I defer to whatever Larry Foltran and Tyrone Weston tell you though!
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DVA1633
Senior Captain, L-1011-100
Joined on April 17 2004
Century Club
Den Haag, Zuid-Holland NL
163 legs, 437.6 hours
2 legs,
11.5 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
October 22 2006 18:54 ET by Sander Jordans
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Old? the oldest MD-88's where build in 1987/88, thats hardly old, most of the Domestic 767-300's are older, the bulk is from 1986 (shockingly old eh? ).
if you want to talk about old planes, we should talk about those DC-3/C-47's still hauling freight in low numbers all over the world, pushing 60 years or more. how about C-46 Commando's, DC-4's and DC-6's still active in Alaska? or DC-8-70's still hauling freight for some major package airlines? how about the small number of 707's still flying around, some even carying pax? or even the USAF 50+ year old KC-135 and B-52 fleets? or Northwest's DC-9 fleet averaging 38 years of age?
you have a lot to learn about the deffinition "old"... I prefer the term classic anyway, and the MD-88 nor 767 do not belong in that catagory, now will they ever get that title...
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DVA3541
First Officer, B777-200
Joined on September 11 2006
Century Club
Online Century Club
"Key to a good landing is a good App." Ferndale, WA USA
136 legs, 842.5 hours
129 legs,
819.4 hours online 111 legs,
686.4 hours ACARS 1 legs,
24.6 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
October 22 2006 19:59 ET by Roman Manzhosov
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well said sanders, by the way I'm russian 2.altho i live in the states
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DVA3293
Captain, MD-88
Joined on July 01 2006
MA USA
34 legs, 38.9 hours
22 legs,
25.4 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
October 22 2006 20:27 ET by David Jacuk
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Man! Calm down. I didn't mean to push any buttons by saying old. I'm sorry, "classic" for the people who are sensitive.
David JacukCaptain, MD-88
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DVA2728
Captain, MD-11
E-MAIL
Joined on December 04 2005
Triple Century Club
Online Triple Century Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Tri-Jet Double Centruy CLub
Million Mile Club
"Exceeding the standard." March Air Reserve Base, CA
343 legs, 2,038.9 hours
317 legs,
1,833.0 hours online 292 legs,
1,778.6 hours ACARS 6 legs,
27.9 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
October 22 2006 21:33 ET by Shane Olguin
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Sander just likes his old planes! Don't take it personally as he didn't mean to be rude I'm sure.
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DVA1933
Senior Captain, B727-200
Joined on September 19 2004
Triple Century Club
Monterrey, NL Mexico
357 legs, 860.4 hours
72 legs,
132.3 hours online 255 legs,
668.3 hours ACARS 1 legs,
1.9 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
October 22 2006 21:55 ET by David Eugenio Gomez
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LOL Sander!
Don't worry David, Sander simply likes classics (like some of us), but he doesn't try to offend anyone , unless you insult his Tupo-thing (TU154) like I do when I wanna piss him off
You should have seen him trying to slap me back when I flew 737-800's! HAHAHA!
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DVA309
Captain, B767-300
Joined on September 23 2001
Northeastern United States
56 legs, 82.9 hours
29 legs,
30.3 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
October 22 2006 21:56 ET by Tom Giovannelli
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I sincerely doubt the 88's are going anywhere anytime soon. With over 100 of them in the fleet...there isn't anything to replace them with right now...or at least anything that is in the budget. American is kinda in the same boat. That is one of the things that Continental did really well was getting rid of their MD-80's and having an all Boeing fleet...it makes alot of sense. I just don't think Delta is in the position to replace over 100 MD-88's with the same amount of new 737-800's right now...which is about what it would take. Just my thoughts on the matter.
Tom GiovannelliCaptain, B767-300
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DVA1679
Senior Captain, A320
Joined on May 16 2004
Triple Century Club
Online Triple Century Club
"flightdeckproductions.com" Utica, MI USA
322 legs, 620.4 hours
300 legs,
591.4 hours online 115 legs,
194.0 hours ACARS 5 legs,
11.3 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
October 22 2006 22:32 ET by Larry Foltran
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I haven't seen (or don't recall seeing) any news that would indicated DAL would be eliminating their fleet of MD88s and 90s. As long as these aircraft can provide a profitable balance in terms of maintenance and operation costs vs. flight income, they'll be safe for a few more years. I just don't see Delta spending the money to replace these aircraft right now. My personal feeling is that the 737s with blended winglets will be a big factor in deciding the Mad Dog's future with Delta.
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DVA3293
Captain, MD-88
Joined on July 01 2006
MA USA
34 legs, 38.9 hours
22 legs,
25.4 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
October 22 2006 22:53 ET by David Jacuk
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I know Delta can not afford to replace them, but I think eventual if some type of miracale happens and Delta starts making a huge profit, they can replace the MD88/90's with more profitable aircraft.
David JacukCaptain, MD-88
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DVA1633
Senior Captain, L-1011-100
Joined on April 17 2004
Century Club
Den Haag, Zuid-Holland NL
163 legs, 437.6 hours
2 legs,
11.5 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
October 23 2006 07:55 ET by Sander Jordans
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David, like Shane and Dave said; I didn't meant to offend you or anyone for that matter, it's just that I'm a bit sensitive about classic planes. perhaps you would understand it if you know how it is to be part of a small minority within the aviaition/FS community. once again I didn't mean to offend anyone, just trying to get my point across
Roman, first off all it's a shame DVA doesn't support cyrilic anymore, as I was about to write a short message to you lol. I'm not Russian tough, I'm Dutch. but I've always been greatly interested in your country and the former USSR, and especialy Soviet aviation ofcourse. I'm also studying Russian at the moment, so if you still speak Russian perhaps we could have a little chat sometimes.
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DVA309
Captain, B767-300
Joined on September 23 2001
Northeastern United States
56 legs, 82.9 hours
29 legs,
30.3 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
October 24 2006 15:15 ET by Tom Giovannelli
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Well..I agree in some aspect with what David said...at somepoint down the road Delta is going to have to invest in its fleet again. Just like they did with the international seat investment...the same is going to have to take place with aircraft. The blended winglets save around 5% on both 737 and 757's. But once again, the problem is there aren't any miracales in this industry...it is as cuthroat as cuthroat can be. The trick will be for Delta to get itself in a good financial position so that they will be able to make the investment. Also, on that thought process, Delta said they should be out of Ch.11 by next year...so it is a step in the right direction. As Dr. Leo Marvin wrote, "Baby Steps".
Tom GiovannelliCaptain, B767-300
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DVA1427
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on December 14 2003
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
Tri-Jet Triumph
Globetrotter
Moose Club
US Capital Club
Everett 250 Club
Quincentenary Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
"Livin' in the Dog Pound!" Kannapolis, NC
558 legs, 1,984.3 hours
250 legs,
611.8 hours online 384 legs,
1,530.5 hours ACARS 38 legs,
82.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
October 24 2006 15:30 ET by Lewis Gregory
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I really don't think they're going to get rid of the MDs for several more years. They're the backbone of their short/medium fleet right now, more so than the 737s since the -300s are gone and the -200s are going or gone. They need them on those routes where an RJ is too small. Eventually they'll have to look into more 737s, or perhaps ERJ-170s/-190s, but until then, those -88s and -90s are going to keep on grinding. When I was at Hartsfield yesterday there were still Mad Dogs everywhere.
Lewis GregorySenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA309
Captain, B767-300
Joined on September 23 2001
Northeastern United States
56 legs, 82.9 hours
29 legs,
30.3 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
October 24 2006 16:48 ET by Tom Giovannelli
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I agree...it is going to be while..mainly because of...like I said above and what you wrote...along with the 757...they are the backbone of the fleet. But the problem is this...Delta has not invested and have not been proactive in its fleet...or not enough I should say. The 767 (300s) are getting older, they didn't push the 200s out until they figured out how inefficient they were in today's market...and they have ignored the 757 300s (big money makers for those who use them in high volume markets). But, as I said before, I think the important first step for Delta is getting themselves into a position where they can comfortably invest in the fleet...and look at 737NG's and 787s to replace the 767s down the road. All of what I am saying is way in the future...but you have to plan for the future...you can't just wake up one morning and say, "Gee, those MD-88's are more expensive than the 737NG's...I think I want to swap them out." It takes years to do...so when Delta is able to start planning for the future instead of survival will be a great step.
Tom GiovannelliCaptain, B767-300
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DVA1633
Senior Captain, L-1011-100
Joined on April 17 2004
Century Club
Den Haag, Zuid-Holland NL
163 legs, 437.6 hours
2 legs,
11.5 hours online
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Posted onPost created on
October 25 2006 05:45 ET by Sander Jordans
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Tom, you are right in saying the 737NG is more effecient then the MD-88. but concider this, the MD-88 is not that much more expensive to operate then the 737NG. I've seen some cost analys a few months ago in wich the American Airlines MD-82 cost per flight was set against the cost per flight of their 737's, suprisingly, the MD-82 is only about 2 to 3% more expensive to operate, and on flights shorter then 450nm the 737NG has no advantage in terms of effeciency. another factor to concider is that both the MD-80's of Delta and the huge fleet of AA MD-80's are paid for, they where bought a long time ago, so they don't have to pay for lease costs, this is another major reasson for keeping the MD's around. yet another one is aquisition costs, while the MD's are paid for new 737's have either to be bought or leased from a leasing firm, this would mean you would pay a lot of money for a plane that only has a real advantage over the MD-80 at longer flights, so you need to fly for let's say around 30 years in order to get the effeciency advantage out of it. another thing you should keep in mind, the MD-80 is still a member of the Douglas family, and while they may not be that effecient anymore they where build like flying tanks. a good example of this is Northwest's DC-9 fleet averaging 38 years in age, with a few frames over 40 years of age. so in my opinion the MD-80 will continue to fly with both American and Delta till the midlle of the next decade before being replaced by either the 737 replacement, or the A-320 replacement.
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DVA2214
Captain, A330-300
OLP E-MAIL
Joined on March 25 2005
50 State Club
Everett 500 Club
Globetrotter
White Knuckles Club
Million Mile Club
Millennium Club
US Capital Club
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
"One takeoff and landing at a time" Tampa, FL
1,124 legs, 2,777.2 hours
35 legs,
61.3 hours online 1,005 legs,
2,492.2 hours ACARS 1,153 legs, 2,869.7 hours total 111 legs dispatched, 90.7
hours
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Posted onPost created on
October 25 2006 07:04 ET by Anthony Katosh
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I have to laugh an hope what sander just said aint true A-320. Now i sure hope Delta dont get crazy an switch to an airbus fleet. sit back an watch me cry lol.
But as alot have stated, the MD's are very good plane, they may be old but still in good use.
An i was thinking since were talking about replacement, When boeing releases the 787 what would that take the place of?
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DVA1892
Senior Captain, MD-11
Joined on September 13 2004
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Eurocap Club
Online Triple Century Club
White Pearl Accomplishment
Quatercentenary Club
Everett Century Club
"Fly Douglas Jets!" Buenos Aires AR
460 legs, 1,384.1 hours
336 legs,
1,086.5 hours online 271 legs,
726.6 hours ACARS 12 legs,
24.6 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
October 25 2006 07:07 ET by Gaston Doval
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MD88s are cheaper in leasing than the 738.
That covers up the fuel issue. Leasing cost make it so cheap that the 88s are actually cheaper to operate than the new 738, even some of them are paid for already. Not the 738s.
DL is keeping its head up, but it still is in Chapter 11. So, don't expect any news soon.
Cheers!
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DVA3293
Captain, MD-88
Joined on July 01 2006
MA USA
34 legs, 38.9 hours
22 legs,
25.4 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
October 25 2006 12:33 ET by David Jacuk
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Did Delta park all the 737-200's? I haven't seen any lately.
David JacukCaptain, MD-88
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DVA1427
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on December 14 2003
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
Tri-Jet Triumph
Globetrotter
Moose Club
US Capital Club
Everett 250 Club
Quincentenary Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
"Livin' in the Dog Pound!" Kannapolis, NC
558 legs, 1,984.3 hours
250 legs,
611.8 hours online 384 legs,
1,530.5 hours ACARS 38 legs,
82.7 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
October 25 2006 14:00 ET by Lewis Gregory
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I think they've either parked, or are in the process of parking, all the -200s. The -300s are gone as well. Soon the -800s will be the only 737s in the DAL fleet.
Delta used to run a lot of 732s into CAE, I saw them all the time when I lived in Columbia. I assume they've shuffled the flights to replace them with a mixture of RJs and -88s.
Lewis GregorySenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA1892
Senior Captain, MD-11
Joined on September 13 2004
DVA Fifteen-Year Anniversary
Eurocap Club
Online Triple Century Club
White Pearl Accomplishment
Quatercentenary Club
Everett Century Club
"Fly Douglas Jets!" Buenos Aires AR
460 legs, 1,384.1 hours
336 legs,
1,086.5 hours online 271 legs,
726.6 hours ACARS 12 legs,
24.6 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
October 25 2006 14:42 ET by Gaston Doval
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Gone to the parking lot at VCV, MHV, GYR - I think they did it in August/September.
Cheers!
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