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All engines quit, no fuel, ACARS problem? |
DVA5167
Captain, MD-11
Joined on November 02 2007
Century Club
"Semper Vigilans" Glenside, PA USA
148 legs, 187.9 hours
49 legs,
78.5 hours online 133 legs,
157.8 hours ACARS 9 legs,
26.4 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
December 03 2007 17:38 ET by Isaac McDermott
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When I was flying JFK-AUS using a CRJ-900, midway through, I ran out of fuel. Now, I blame the fuel loading procedures. Can you try to fix the fuel loading in the next version of ACARS?
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DVA043
Senior Captain, MD-11
OLP
Joined on June 10 2001
Event Half Century Club
Online Double Century Club
50 State Club
DVA Twenty-Year Anniversary
Everett 1500 Club
Bi-Millennium Club
Four Million Mile Club
"Col. Panic" Marietta, GA
2,241 legs, 8,967.3 hours
240 legs,
553.9 hours online 1,899 legs,
7,760.4 hours ACARS 75 legs,
196.3 hours event 2,277 legs, 9,102.2 hours total 91 legs dispatched, 66.4
hours
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Posted onPost created on
December 03 2007 17:54 ET by Luke Kolin
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What needs fixed?
Cheers!
Luke KolinSenior Captain, MD-11
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DVA4193
Captain, MD-11
Joined on March 16 2007
Online Quintuple Century Club
Six Century Club
"It's Always Sunny On Top" Grand Forks, ND USA
627 legs, 1,470.6 hours
594 legs,
1,383.7 hours online 583 legs,
1,347.5 hours ACARS 19 legs,
63.1 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
December 03 2007 18:04 ET by Daniel Johnson
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My advice to you Issaac is to cross-check your fuel loading with your planned flight so you are sure that you wont run out, and dont forget to add reserves. Also, always monitor you fuel throughout your flight.
Hope that helps
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DVA4148
Captain, B767-300
Joined on March 05 2007
Century Club
Online Century Club
Wood-Ridge, NJ USA
160 legs, 457.7 hours
157 legs,
452.9 hours online 137 legs,
413.5 hours ACARS 20 legs,
44.6 hours event
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Posted onPost created on
December 03 2007 20:55 ET by Matt Czwakiel
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What figure did ACARS give you?
I just tried it in ACARS with 5204 pounds as base fuel, 420 knot cruise speed, 4500 pounds of reserves, 2000 pounds of taxi fuel, and 0 headwind. It gave me 29290 lbs of fuel.
That was based on a fuel flow of 2800 pounds of fuel per hour per engine.
I redid it on paper using 3000 pounds of fuel per hour per engine, just to be safe. If you are cruising at FL340 with an indicated speed of 250 knots (That is a rough estimate) then your
true airspeed will be 420 knots.
KIAS*.02*Altitude+KIAS=KTAS
250*.02=5
5*34=170
170+250=420
At 420 knots true airspeed you will be traveling at approximately 7NM a minute. The trip between JFK and AUS is roughly 1400NM, so it will take you about 200 minutes or 3.3 hours (3h 20m).
420/60=7
1400/7=200
200/60=3.3
So for 3.3 hours you will be burning 3000 pounds of fuel per engine. Since you have two engines, that is 6000 pounds per hour. 3.3*6000=19800
So in 3.3 hours, which is your trip time, you will burn 19800 pounds of fuel.
Now add it all together
5204 (Base Fuel)
4500 (Reserve Fuel)
2000 (Taxi Fuel)
19800 (Trip Fuel)
Total = 31504 pounds of fuel (2214 pounds less then what ACARS gave.) --- I got this with 0 wind along the trip, so you would have to adjust KTAS for winds.
Now I've never flown the CRJ-900 so I'm not 100% positive if these calculations are correct.
If you post what ACARS gave you maybe we can see what went wrong. My only guess is that for cruise speed you put indicated airspeed instead of true airspeed if you changed it from the default 420.
That or you might have had some crazy headwinds or delays on the ground and you burned off precious fuel.
Also when loading with ACARS check your gauges to make sure the correct amount was loaded. You can also take that figure it gave you and use the default fuel loader to load fuel.
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DVA2626
Senior Captain, MD-11
Joined on October 16 2005
Triple Century Club
"Knowledge Is Power" Atlanta, GA USA
328 legs, 841.9 hours
324 legs,
833.9 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
December 04 2007 10:53 ET by Brian Braden
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I run into the same problem one time but it wasnt ACARS fault it was mine.i forgot to check the winds aloft for the flight and i was hitting 70knt head winds and i made it in on fumes.so its the pilot in comand job to check those things out and factor those conditions in for the flight.i let ACARS figure my base amount and then i add some if the conditions require more.just remember guys theres no gas stations in the clouds and ACARS is made to help make things easier but the pilot still has to do his or her part in checking weather because the weather is not the same for every flight and it can play a factor on your fuel.allso check your payload another factor that may affect your fuel.hope this helps.
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DVA4133
Captain, B767-300
Joined on March 02 2007
Century Club
"1957 Apache. No parking brake!" Southeastern United States
143 legs, 448.0 hours
5 legs,
6.7 hours online 138 legs,
434.1 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
December 05 2007 02:43 ET by Brian Beard
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have not seen Fuel figures for the CR9 around here at all. Man I would like to help update some of the manuals!!! I just lost my job so I will have PLENTY OF TIME to go through everything. What say you Luke? Will ya give me a crack at it? Im gonna be really free until late Feb when the spring season hits. Shoot me an email and let me know.
As for the CRJ-900 the 900's Skywest flies have to be LR's as the BNA-SLC route is nearly 1700 NM long.
So based on that here are some rough calculations (All are based on CR9LR numbers from Bombardier's website)
Time 3.7 hours
458kts Cruise speed
MZFW 70,600lbs
MFCap 19,450lbs
MTOW 84,500lbs
Max Long Range Cruise 4 Hrs@458mph
FPH 4,862.5lbs (2,431.25 per engine)
Something is not right with the cfg or air file. The Posky cr9 may not be an LR. I will have to look at mine. I don't think it is. Look for an update this evening ot Tomorrow.
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DVA4133
Captain, B767-300
Joined on March 02 2007
Century Club
"1957 Apache. No parking brake!" Southeastern United States
143 legs, 448.0 hours
5 legs,
6.7 hours online 138 legs,
434.1 hours ACARS
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Posted onPost created on
December 05 2007 05:52 ET by Brian Beard
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Had to tweak the air and cfg file to get it right.
Someone let me know if it is kosher to share them.
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